Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-08-2019, 07:19 PM   #1
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 187
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
DT466E no start issue

Good evening all,

Recently I replaced the fan clutch on my engine. The job went smoothly until I went to fire up the engine. I cranked it and it started like normal, I walked out of the bus and turned to look at the fan and the engine shutdown. Hasn’t started since.

What could have happened? I have no Navistar diagnostic references but heres what I’ve been able to check.

Things I’ve checked:
-all connections in my working area
-camshaft positioning sensor (checked for operation with multimeter and voltage drop)
-IPR Valve connector (noticed it’s wet and is missing it’s weatherpak seal) could this be my issue?
-battery voltages (2 batteries): 11.78v drops to 9.85v while cranking. I understand this is below a nominally charged battery. I admit I cranked for a lot longer than necessary to build oil pressure in the HPOP.
What I don’t understand is why the motor cranks like normally and even started that one time. I had just driven the bus a couple weeks prior for three hours. I recall reading that if the ECM reads voltage below 10-11v while cranking it’ll shut off fuel to the injectors. Can anyone verify this?

I want to install a battery disconnect switch as well. I still have power going through circuits without the key on or in the ignition (can still operate turn signals without a key) so I know I have a drain somewhere.

What’re your thoughts? The bus ran very well with no issues until this point after sitting a couple weeks.
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 10:09 AM   #2
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 187
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
Any ideas?
__________________
-Nick
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 10:48 AM   #3
Skoolie
 
CMORGANSKOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 229
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
I have the same engine and have read the same thing about ecu voltage. Try charging the batteries. I have a 25 watt solar panel and charge controller plugged into my always on cigarette lighter that keeps the batteries at 13+ volts for this reason.
CMORGANSKOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 01:58 PM   #4
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 11,460
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
charge the batteries.. is it possible you knocked a wire off the alternator so it ran for a bit and then shut down..


did you do anything else while changing the clutch? like change the oil and not fill up the filters?
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 02:18 PM   #5
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 187
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
charge the batteries.. is it possible you knocked a wire off the alternator so it ran for a bit and then shut down..


did you do anything else while changing the clutch? like change the oil and not fill up the filters?


I did not knock a wire off the alternator, that was something I checked as well. No other work done to the vehicle besides the fan clutch. (THIS WAS BACK IN MAY!) I’ve had the batteries tested at Advance and they claimed they’re both bad. Right after they tested them, I threw them in the bus and it fired up. Now it’s July and it won’t start. My question is why would it crank and crank and crank nice and fast but not start? Is it true what I’ve read about the ECU being voltage sensitive? If I had diagnostic schematics, or service manuals I’m sure this would be easier.

For now I’m going to purchase two new batteries of the same size, CCA/CA and amp hours and go from there. The bus has two 1231MF Deka Group 31 batteries in the battery bay, each rated at 1000CCA/1230CA. I found a place that sells them for $120 a piece. If anyone is in the Central NY area and needs batteries you can call Battery World in Syracuse and they’ll have what you need.
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 02:30 PM   #6
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 11,460
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
after you disconnect the batteries.. the ECM likes to see an extra fast cranking speed for some reason the first time you start. give your existing batteries a good shot with an overnight battery charger and see what you get?



, the fact it was running and just stalled is more concerning than the no-start.. most likely a continuation.. if you have a fuel primer.. make sure the fuel system is primed.. the little plunger on the primer should be hard to press dowmn and feel like its tryinfg to move liquid and not air...



the ICP usually wont cause a No-start.. however you can unplug the ICP if you suspect it and the engine should start with a default value being applied to the IPR..



does your WARN light stay on when you turn the key to the ON position after trying to start it?


-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 02:47 PM   #7
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 187
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
after you disconnect the batteries.. the ECM likes to see an extra fast cranking speed for some reason the first time you start. give your existing batteries a good shot with an overnight battery charger and see what you get?



, the fact it was running and just stalled is more concerning than the no-start.. most likely a continuation.. if you have a fuel primer.. make sure the fuel system is primed.. the little plunger on the primer should be hard to press dowmn and feel like its tryinfg to move liquid and not air...



the ICP usually wont cause a No-start.. however you can unplug the ICP if you suspect it and the engine should start with a default value being applied to the IPR..



does your WARN light stay on when you turn the key to the ON position after trying to start it?


-Christopher
I will put the new batteries on an overnight change to make sure they’re up to snuff. The old ones I most likely won’t bother with. They’re standard lead acid and almost 6 years old.

It ran for maybe 3 seconds then shut down. I check the primer and checked the Schrader valve above it for pressure as well as no air. There is pressure. I might change the fuel filter for shitz and gigz. Considering it’s a year old already (less than 500 miles though). The fuel plunger feels stiff to press, I am familiar with priming pumps so I do understand what you mean in regards to feel.

The WARN light comes on for its self test then shuts off after a second or two and once I begin cranking. I checked for trouble codes and got 0 Active (111) and a few Inactive. I will post them shortly.

My IPR valve was slightly damp with what appeared/smelled/tasted to be oil, not diesel. The connector is also missing it’s weatherpak grommet/seal. Could this be my problem?
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 03:01 PM   #8
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 187
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
Pics of the IPR/connector. The wetness is from brake cleaner but it was slippery with oil prior to that
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 03:30 PM   #9
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 11,460
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
does it crank fast enough to give you any RPM reading as you crank? CPS would be my next thought if its got fuel and no codes.. if the IPR connection was real bad id expect an active IPR out of range code..
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2019, 03:33 PM   #10
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 187
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
does it crank fast enough to give you any RPM reading as you crank? CPS would be my next thought if its got fuel and no codes.. if the IPR connection was real bad id expect an active IPR out of range code..
Cranked fast enough to register on the tach. It was doing (if I had to guess) almost 350 RPM. I would imagine a bad crank sensor would mean no Tach operation.
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery, dt466e, fuel, ipr, no start

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.