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Old 10-07-2016, 12:02 PM   #1
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Finding a bus!

Hey all! First post and I'm just getting started on this venture. I'm looking for a 1995-1998 65+ pax international conventional bus with the DT466 (mechanical) and air brakes. Also a few other requirements such as no split rims, etc.

It seems all I can find is flat nose with dt466 and air brakes or conventional with dt466 and hydraulic. Also plenty of conventionals with 444e and air brakes. Am I missing something or did they just not make the big motor with air brakes in a conventional during those years?

I want the dt466 and air brakes so all I am looking at doing to the drivetrain is swapping rear axles with a 20k lb air ride from a class 8 truck with 3.55 gears and also swapping in 10 speed Eaton from same truck and converting bus to manual shift ( this is why I need conventional and not flat).

I will be moving other stuff over: a few air tanks, espar diesel cab heater, aluminum wheels for the whole bus, etc but it is all irrelevant for this post.

If anybody can let me know if they made 65+ pax (or preferably 72+ pax) international conventional busses with the dt466 and air brakes, please do! If not, I guess I'll just have to settle and buy one with the 444e and eventually swap in a Series 50/60 Detroit, space permitting 😀
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Old 10-07-2016, 03:01 PM   #2
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Year: 1991
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Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
ive seen the DT-466E's in the 71 passenger dog-nose busses. , the T-444E was a lot lower cost so as the yeasrs came up you saw a lot of those.. schools in mountaineess areas rtended to buy RE's and often got 8.3 cummins it seemed in those..

therers definitely alot of 11 row dognose with DT466's in them..

-Christopher
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Old 10-07-2016, 03:04 PM   #3
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Yes but I'm looking for an 11+ row conventional (dog nose) bus with a dt466 mechanical engine and air brakes.
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Old 10-07-2016, 03:47 PM   #4
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Finding a mechanical engine in a used bus on a dealer's lot is going to be difficult as those buses are 20+ years old.

IC Bus 2002 IC

IC Bus 2003 CE

International 1997 AMTRAN

And something a little different:

GILLIG 1968 C190-12
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Old 10-07-2016, 04:09 PM   #5
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Chassis: International S3800
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wow those are some high price busses.. at least they seem that way...

a couple weeks ago I saw some DT-466 mechanical 65 PAS wayne dognose.. they were at an auction where I acquired my second bus. those busses did get bid up twice or 3X what the DT-466E's did..

down south when mechasnicals come on the market it seems they get bid up quickly by Exporters who send them to ??? countries...

you can find some of them up north, however many schools up north are forced to unload busses at 10-15 years due to rust-away so you'll have a tougher time finding them.

you just have to scour the auctions and dealers looking for what you want ... I think you have a possibility of still finding a good mechanical bus out there...

-Christopher
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Old 10-07-2016, 05:12 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
Finding a mechanical engine in a used bus on a dealer's lot is going to be difficult as those buses are 20+ years old.

IC Bus 2002 IC

IC Bus 2003 CE

International 1997 AMTRAN

And something a little different:

GILLIG 1968 C190-12
Not to be nitpicky but 1998+ is DT446E, not DT466. The mechanical is the good one while the E model is okay in terms of performance but life expectancy is about 50%.

The 1997 would be perfect if it only had air brakes. I will be towing so I feel pneumatic brakes are a necessity. I'm also a CDL A holder so legalities are no issue either.

As for the 1968, that's cool as hell but not what I'm looking for right off the bat. My mind could be changed however if the 68 had a 12v71 in her 😉.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
wow those are some high price busses.. at least they seem that way...

a couple weeks ago I saw some DT-466 mechanical 65 PAS wayne dognose.. they were at an auction where I acquired my second bus. those busses did get bid up twice or 3X what the DT-466E's did..

down south when mechasnicals come on the market it seems they get bid up quickly by Exporters who send them to ??? countries...

you can find some of them up north, however many schools up north are forced to unload busses at 10-15 years due to rust-away so you'll have a tougher time finding them.

you just have to scour the auctions and dealers looking for what you want ... I think you have a possibility of still finding a good mechanical bus out there...

-Christopher
Bus dealers are a little too proud of their inventory. There is a joint down here in Texas asking $12,995 for a 1996 AMTran 65pax conventional with DT466 and MT543 transmission and hydraulic brakes and 169,000 miles.

Specifically, I'm looking at private sellers, eBay, and other auction services. I've spent a cumulative 24-36 hours looking and can't seem to find any 1995-1998 International 65+ pax conventional nose busses with the DT466 mechanical engine and air brakes. I really just want someone to say if they have seen anything in that criteria so I know to keep looking or settle for 444e and motor swap.

Also, if anybody could tell me how hard it is to motor swap a flat nose bus, I may just be able to swing that too. It seems like it would be a chore. I assume having to lift the front of the bus 6 ft off the ground and remove the front axle to get the motor out from the bottom. And how much extra room is there around the engine? The motor I would swap for is about 12 inches taller than a DT466. I suppose I could go with a rear engine if I went flat as well. Any input?
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Old 10-07-2016, 07:13 PM   #7
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the DT-466E is not a 50% life expectancy... the DT-466E is life-shortned by school bus drivers and fleet managers who ignore warning sides that it needs help...

notorious for ignoring the WARN indicator lamp on the dash... while a failed injector dumps fuel in the oil and washes out the rings...

notorious for being scared of it because it might be pricey to fix..

same the T-444E.. the T-444E can easily run 350k if its maintained properly and not overheated... the DT-466E can easily go 500k if maintained and not overheated...

the 'E' is not a death sentence to a motor...

any bus that has an allison 2000 in it is running an 'E' motor.. the 2000 is an electronic transmission and requires data fro mthe compiuter to operate.. the LATEST GEN of allisons CAN be run with a mechanical engine but are different transmissions than the ones built in the late 90s - late 00's

the MT-643 and AT545 were basically mechanical units.. however when mated to an 'E' engine they use an electronic modulator... i dont know if you can replace the engine with a mechanical and replace the electronic modulatior with a cable or not..

-Christopher
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Old 10-07-2016, 07:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the DT-466E is not a 50% life expectancy... the DT-466E is life-shortned by school bus drivers and fleet managers who ignore warning sides that it needs help...

notorious for ignoring the WARN indicator lamp on the dash... while a failed injector dumps fuel in the oil and washes out the rings...

notorious for being scared of it because it might be pricey to fix..

same the T-444E.. the T-444E can easily run 350k if its maintained properly and not overheated... the DT-466E can easily go 500k if maintained and not overheated...

the 'E' is not a death sentence to a motor...

any bus that has an allison 2000 in it is running an 'E' motor.. the 2000 is an electronic transmission and requires data fro mthe compiuter to operate.. the LATEST GEN of allisons CAN be run with a mechanical engine but are different transmissions than the ones built in the late 90s - late 00's

the MT-643 and AT545 were basically mechanical units.. however when mated to an 'E' engine they use an electronic modulator... i dont know if you can replace the engine with a mechanical and replace the electronic modulatior with a cable or not..

-Christopher
The E may not be a death sentence but like you said, buying one would be putting a lot of trust in the previous drivers and mechanics that they properly maintained it. At least with a 466 mechanical, I have a little more reliability I think. The 466 is, after all, a legend. Honestly, it may not even stay in the bus if I don't like it or it doesn't pull well enough for my taste. I'm a big HD diesel fan and wouldn't mind having a bus turning 600 HP and 2050 ft lb of torque behind a 10 speed Eaton rated for the same.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:15 PM   #9
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Looks like I bought the exact bus you want. Its a 1985 International Blue Bird 11 window (84 pass) with a DT-466, MT643 and Air brakes.
They do exist, but will be older. BTW I paid $1500 for mine and drove home happy.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:26 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Oldmopars View Post
Looks like I bought the exact bus you want. Its a 1985 International Blue Bird 11 window (84 pass) with a DT-466, MT643 and Air brakes.
They do exist, but will be older. BTW I paid $1500 for mine and drove home happy.
I thought the dt466 want used until 1994.5? Are you sure it's not been motor swapped by previous owner? Also, please rub the hate in lol
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