Help starting dt466e

[Doe69936]

Originally Posted by MambaJack

hi Doe, do you know how to add the icp pressure to my gauge?

It seems like a saw a video somewhere on how to add the icp voltage, would have to look it back up, but didn't see the pressure

There's instructions with the gauge you'll have to call or email the company which has great tech support they'll help you I don't recall the exact process buts its in the xgauge section of the manual

[Doe69936]

Originally Posted by MambaJack

oh also, When i pulled the oil dipstick out while it was running, there was a little smoke coming out of that tube.

Tyats normal it's the the blow by all motors have blow by which is why they have crankcase ventilation mechanisms

[cadillackid]

The pid for the ICP is 164, it is a 2 byte parameter. It is shipped once per second.
That will be actual ICP .

It’s resolution is 1/256 MPa per bit.

That’s only part of the story. The 2 other parameters which are part of navistar own requested set are the commanded ICP and the IPR load factor.
I’m still working on decipering navistar proprietary PIDs.

[MambaJack]

Originally Posted by Doe69936

There's instructions with the gauge you'll have to call or email the company which has great tech support they'll help you I don't recall the exact process buts its in the xgauge section of the manual

Started it up again tonight. Seemed a little easier, but still smoked like crazy.
I cleared the codes before i started and didn't get any more while it was running, prob 10 min.
Occasionally i would hear a knocking type sound, but it seemed to fade in and out.

anyhow, went thru the scangauge pid search process and it put out the following. Don't know that this helps anybody, but just in case.

BE 8D0A5B00
5B 005C1EA4
5C 1EA43804
A4 38047640
54 00BF0000
BF 00006D1E
B7 0F005540
55 40800601
45 00F504FF
F5 04FFFFFF
6E 7A660047
66 004770AB
47 70AB3701
AB 3701C700
44 C8530064
53 00644DB2
64 4DB23701
AF 6901D0C7
59 406CDF13
6C DF13AF69
A8 08010BC7
BB 00008600
56 009D8600

[cadillackid]

I was going to try and read those messages.. however they must be in a nom standard format... they sure dont look like th standard MID-PID-Data-checksum format im used to seeing for J1708 stuff

[Doe69936]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

I was going to try and read those messages.. however they must be in a nom standard format... they sure dont look like th standard MID-PID-Data-checksum format im used to seeing for J1708 stuff

They aren't standard it's a proprietary code that scan gauge uses just call the tech or email them and they will give you the descriptions for the codes

[MambaJack]

Originally Posted by Doe69936

They aren't standard it's a proprietary code that scan gauge uses just call the tech or email them and they will give you the descriptions for the codes

After i sent those number into them. They sent this back for me to add the custom gauges.


Torque Limited Factor (Torque Allowed over Available Torque) (%)
TXD: 00
RXF: 014400000000
RXD: 0808
MTH: 000100020000
NAM: TLF

Cruise Control Set Speed (MPH)
TXD: 00
RXF: 015600000000
RXD: 0808
MTH: 000100020000
NAM: CCS

Barometric Pressure (PSI)
TXD: 00
RXF: 016C80000000
RXD: 0808
MTH: 000A00100000
NAM: PSI

Injection Control Pressure (MPA)
TXD: 00
RXF: 01A400000000
RXD: 0808
MTH: 000100010000
NAM: ICP

Ambient Air Temperature (Degrees Fahrenheit)
TXD: 00
RXF: 01AB00000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000100040000
NAM: AIR

Engine Oil Temperature (Degrees Fahrenheit)
TXD: 00
RXF: 01AF00000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000100040000
NAM: EOT

Power Takeoff Set Speed (RPM)
TXD: 00
RXF: 01BB00000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000100040000
NAM: PSS

Transmission Output Shaft Speed (RPM)
TXD: 00
RXF: 01BF00000000
RXD: 0810
MTH: 000100040000
NAM: TOS

[MambaJack]

Also, I started again this morning to see if i could read the icp.
It sounded a little rough, but started first crank.
Only thing i changed from yesterday that I know of was opened up the bottom of the fuel/water separator filter for a bit.


Once started, ICP seemed to fluctuate quite a bit, but mostly from 200 to 250

Still smoking pretty heavy. Excited to get the new filters and do an oil change to see if that fixes anything.

Thanks
dave

[cadillackid]

something is off here.. if the gauge is reading and interpreting the data correct.. 200-250 MPa sould be like 30000+ PSI.. the Max HPOP will ever be is something around the 3000-3500 PSI mark.



if he didnt convert the units and is just giving the reading of 200-250 coming from the gauge then you would take those numbers and divide by 256. .97 and then convert to PSI is about 140 PSI.. which is extremely Low..



if he converted correctly to PSI then 200-250 is also quite Low..



enough low i'd expect to see the ECM toss a code and light the WARN light...

[MambaJack]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

something is off here.. if the gauge is reading and interpreting the data correct.. 200-250 MPa sould be like 30000+ PSI.. the Max HPOP will ever be is something around the 3000-3500 PSI mark.



if he didnt convert the units and is just giving the reading of 200-250 coming from the gauge then you would take those numbers and divide by 256. .97 and then convert to PSI is about 140 PSI.. which is extremely Low..



if he converted correctly to PSI then 200-250 is also quite Low..

I don't know what units it is in, but yea strange.
Maybe I didn't enter something correctly, or they didn't determine the right data from what I recorded, or maybe it really is low.

I tried to view gauge while starting last night, but it fired right up first crank, still at times read below 200.

Once I get filters changed (possibly tomorrow), how can i know if I am i am hurting it more by running it? or what to do next?

Thanks so much for your help

[Doe69936]

When I setup my gauge the numbers were off and I had to call them back and they explained how to read it or fix it it's been awhile back now so exactly how is a bit fuzzy as
As for the fluctuating pressure that is normal because it's constantly changing in order to regulate the fuel . now mine was not able to read duty cycle of the icp which is unfortunate because that would tell you how hard the ipr valve is working to maintain icp pressure for example if the hpop was leaking the duty cycle would be higher so it could start but might cause running problems as it can't maintain the pressure under all conditions
I suggest 3 things : check out the pressure and flow rate of the fuel pump , check out the valve cover harness as shorts in it are a common cause of running problems a visual inspection usually finds them in the plugs at the valve covers caused by the glow plug pins over heating , replace the icp valve located on the hpop resivore it's not all that expensive "relatively" but you're probably going to any way sooner or later because aside from hpop leaks that's what causes most starting problems in my experience and if nothing turns up do a pressure test of the hpop aka "the cody test" you can probably find it on YouTube as easy as anywhere if not I'll try and write up instructions my bad writing skills not withstanding

[cadillackid]

the IPR duty cycle and command ICP values are Not on the list of standard J1708 parameters.. they can be read using the Navistar software... theres a lot of data like that..



I have the PIDs someplace for those.. they are by request parameters so they dont show up in a normal scan.



doe is right flutctuation is normal.. at idle id expect to see 400-600 PSI on the HPOP..



another question.. what happens when you let the bus run.. and warm up close t ooperating temperature? does the smoke begin to clear as the engine warms up?

[MambaJack]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

what happens when you let the bus run.. and warm up close t ooperating temperature? does the smoke begin to clear as the engine warms up?

hmm, I don't think so, but not sure i have had it up to a good operating temp in fear of messing something up more.
I can go give that a try though. Will it get up to temp just idling?

[WARGEAR]

It eventually will, but will take a while. Could always block the rad with some cardboard temporarily to stop airflow through the rad if it’s actually cooling to much. Might take up to 30 minutes idling at an ambient temp of say 60F

[MambaJack]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

is this engine "making oil" meaning is the oil level going up? does the oil smell like fuel at all?

after running it for quite a while tonight, I am pretty sure the oil level is higher than it was before.

Also started another thread because it has been starting better, just smoking bad.

running for 25 min didn't stop the smoke, but it did start knocking some
Also the 2nd time i went to shut it off, it started back up again on its own. but only lasted prob 20 sec

Thanks for your help thru this

[cadillackid]

"started up on its own?" when it did that was it a harsh almost rash sound to it running?



sure sounds like rogue injectors.. or injector O-rings



the oil - is it still black or brown? or is it a more lighter colkor.. ie milky color?



if its still black, does it smell like diesel fuel or seem thinner than normal?
milky would indicate coolant in the oil

black but thinner and fuel-smell would indicate issues with extra fuel getting into the cylinders. (at least one cylinder)..



is the WARN light still on? if so, what codes are showing as Active?



-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

Sounds like a miss to me. Agree with Chris, its starting to sound injector related.
If its "making oil" its almost always the injectors.
This is a cat video, but its got the same type of injection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG0aG5BcEUg

[MambaJack]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

"started up on its own?" when it did that was it a harsh almost rash sound to it running?



sure sounds like rogue injectors.. or injector O-rings



the oil - is it still black or brown? or is it a more lighter colkor.. ie milky color?



if its still black, does it smell like diesel fuel or seem thinner than normal?
milky would indicate coolant in the oil

black but thinner and fuel-smell would indicate issues with extra fuel getting into the cylinders. (at least one cylinder)..



is the WARN light still on? if so, what codes are showing as Active?



-Christopher

When i shut if off, it just hung on for a little bit, then when i expected for it to stop running, it took off again, rpm over idle, maybe a little rash, but not sure.

Oil seems black, not milky, but yes it does seem thinner.
Not sure on the fuel smell. (will try to evaluate more tonight)

The warn light never came on, and didn't see any codes.

[cadillackid]

I surmise this has to do with the starting issue too.. there is over fueling of one or more cylinders, thus white smoke.

There is an injector or an injector O ring allowing fuel to drain into the cylinder. And down into the oil..

The run on was fuel flowing into the cylinder(s) after the engine was turned off so it ran a bit until the fuel rail drained off..

The engine starts hard because the rail is empty and must re pressurize before the other injectors can send fuel in..
time to pull the injectors , replace the o rings and get the injectors tested by a shop to see if any are bad.. and of course change the oil after you put it back together before running it.

[MambaJack]

Thanks so much! will start researching what it takes to do that.