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Old 06-20-2017, 06:45 AM   #41
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im going to try to get mine done and see what they say. likely not as easy as our DT's where we can just take off a plate and turn some screws with a ratchet and go.. lol

im wondering if it will be like the 6 speed debacles that some noted before rameses found a place to just program the computers for him..

-Christopher

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Old 06-20-2017, 07:35 AM   #42
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im going to try to get mine done and see what they say. likely not as easy as our DT's where we can just take off a plate and turn some screws with a ratchet and go.. lol

im wondering if it will be like the 6 speed debacles that some noted before rameses found a place to just program the computers for him..

-Christopher
I think I'd like to find a rusty, but good running bus cheap and harvest a 230hp 444E. Maybe even get lucky and score a better transmission too.
That would be awesome in the duck shorty. Or would it be just as much work as swapping in a 466?
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:41 AM   #43
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I'm following this thread with interest. Who wouldn't want a couple dozen more HP for no mechanical work? I'll try to remember to ask the IH/Navistar dealer in town next time I'm up there.

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I think I'd like to find a rusty, but good running bus cheap and harvest a 230hp 444E. Maybe even get lucky and score a better transmission too.
That would be awesome in the duck shorty. Or would it be just as much work as swapping in a 466?
I can't imagine that swapping a high HP T444e would be much work. All the bolts and electrical connectors should just line up, especially if it's a similar year to the original. An inline 6, however, would require the addition of a dog house. That's the one big thing I like about the 444 in the type C buses: there's lots of leg room up front. Enough that I put a passenger chair directly next to the driver's seat.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:42 AM   #44
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the only busses I know of that got the 230 were some of the RE's, im sure some of the box trucks got it too.. but most of the 4700's ive seen had the 190s and occasionally a 210, but ive never seen a 230 in the real wild myself.. i was thinking there was a forum member here with an RE that has the 230.

makes sense as with a 230 theres no way the split radiator format would work, unless the issues with our 444E's are the AT545's blasting heat into the cooling system.

swapping to a DT seems more straightforward. TxStreetman swapped a 7.3 IDI for a DT360 in a skoolie, so he has done the V-8 to DT swap succesfully.. DT-466 wouldnt be much tougher than a DT-360 to fit in.

a DT-466 / 643 in your shortie would be one bad-*** bus!! esp if you spun out the screws on the 466 and Stacked it.. STacks on an I-6 sound better than they do on a V-8

-Christopher
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:49 AM   #45
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a DT-466 / 643 in your shortie would be one bad-*** bus!! esp if you spun out the screws on the 466 and Stacked it.. STacks on an I-6 sound better than they do on a V-8

-Christopher
Yes, that's kinda what I've been mulling over. I think the 643 would be a great choice in my bus since I don't really need OD with a 4.11 rear and big tires.

I'm really curious how much heat the 545 is putting into the cooling system.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:57 AM   #46
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an experiment im going to try once I get up and running is to drive highway speeds with my trans locked into 4th gear... thaty will effectively simulate what a 643 would be like behind that 444E.. and see how much difference the cooling is from when I had the 545.

I asked about running the 1000 unlocked in 4th and was told a resounding No.. its not designed to run unlocked converter for any length of time in high gear so programmign the computer to do so results in undue stress to it.. so I cant re-simulate the 545 heat.

-Christopher
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Old 11-26-2017, 08:54 PM   #47
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So, at the end of the day, has anyone figured out if there is a commercially available tuner, like an SCT or such, that we can connect to the round 9-pin connector in our busses? Or, is there a hardware device that people are sharing to connect using the service max software?

I have a 2002 International with a T444E, which is limited in the computer to 57 MPH. I would like to turn it up to about 68-72 MPH, mostly so that I can push the hills a little better.

Anything I can do myself would be best. I am mechanically able to handle anything in the bus, but just don't know where to start looking. Help!!
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:32 PM   #48
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You can change the governor setting but it depends on the rear end ratio, if you are doing 57 at 2600 rpm, you will need to change the rear end ratio or get an overdrive transmission
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:44 AM   #49
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I do need to do both. I have 5.38 gears, 5-speed manual transmission, turning ~2600 at 55. I want to re-gear the axle, reprogram the computer for the new gears, and remove any electronic governor (if present, which I suspect there is).
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:56 AM   #50
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no one has created a tuner that will tune the 97-up 444E. ive been working with Navistar without results to do a HP upgrade from 190 to 210 on my red bus.. however they state my transmission is incapable.. and really are thrown for a Loop on anyone doing a "custom build" like mine on a commercial vehicle. a couple different dealers have gone to bat for me but its the corporates at navistar that must authorize such actions...

THEORETICALLTY you could find the Ford computers for a 99.5 and up MANUAL transmission 7.3 and outfit them to your 444E.

HOWEVER you can get into trouble doing so as the ford has a top RPM of 3200-3400 and the navistar is 2700 (unloaded). spinning the 444E faster than 2700 can and would likely result in damage to the valve train as the cams are different..

you can play voodoo with the ICP sensor which will cause higher HPOP pressure and a longer IPR duty cycle which would tend to fuel heavier.. you might be able to put in staged injectors. . but you still wont get a longer pulse width just possibly more fuel..

I would want an EGT gauge before trying any kind of hack-style power-adding.

the 7.3 does respond well in the ford world to tuning and holds up pretty well doing it. however as any hot-rodder (diesel or gas) will tell you, reliability generally goes down as the HP goes up.

what RPM are you spinning at 57 MPH?

-Christopher
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:35 AM   #51
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I'm only turning about 1800-1900 at 57. I can feel that it is governed. When I get to 57, it just stops accelerating. It's not like it shuts down, but it feels like it just takes away enough fuel to keep it at or below 57. I know that it will run up to 2500-1800 when I accelerate thru the first few gears, and it's not a gearing thing.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:00 AM   #52
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I'm only turning about 1800-1900 at 57. I can feel that it is governed. When I get to 57, it just stops accelerating. It's not like it shuts down, but it feels like it just takes away enough fuel to keep it at or below 57. I know that it will run up to 2500-1800 when I accelerate thru the first few gears, and it's not a gearing thing.
yeah thats the computer speed limiter... anyone with a Nexiq USB link2 device can download the servicemaxx J1708 software for free from navistar and turn that speed limiter off..
-Christopher
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:23 AM   #53
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I looked for that Nexiq USB link2 device, and they're a little expensive!! Is there anyone in the Kansas City/Central MO area that might have one, or know of a shop I can go to?
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:19 AM   #54
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I know this is an old thread, but has anyone successfully got Navistar dealer to up their HP from 175 or higher? I called them today to see about bumping me up in HP, and they said they had to put in a case request to Navistar. Im thinking they may not do it as my bus only has hydraulic brakes and not air brakes, and also has a modified drivetrain running a 6 speed Allison now and not the 545.
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Old 05-18-2018, 12:43 PM   #55
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I know this is an old thread, but has anyone successfully got Navistar dealer to up their HP from 175 or higher? I called them today to see about bumping me up in HP, and they said they had to put in a case request to Navistar. Im thinking they may not do it as my bus only has hydraulic brakes and not air brakes, and also has a modified drivetrain running a 6 speed Allison now and not the 545.
I have gotten the run around from navistar for both the HP increase and in changing my ECM trans type from AT/MT to MD. each dealer says they can get a case file open. but i never hear back.. I even went direct to navustar who told me I must work through a dealer.. im still working at it. but havent yet achieved success...
-Christopher
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:04 PM   #56
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I have gotten the run around from navistar for both the HP increase and in changing my ECM trans type from AT/MT to MD. each dealer says they can get a case file open. but i never hear back.. I even went direct to navustar who told me I must work through a dealer.. im still working at it. but havent yet achieved success...
-Christopher
I'll see how much Maudlin's wants.
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:38 PM   #57
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I'll see how much Maudlin's wants.
if maudlin's can open the case file for me, I have the Nexiq and the NavKal with an active Navistar subscription I just need to have the case file number.
-Christopher
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:39 PM   #58
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I can even send my Nexiq and Navkal to sprogers for him to do his if they can open a case.
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:21 PM   #59
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I just cant believe they lock these systems down so tight, I cant believe there is not someone out there who can hack into these things. I know we have emissions laws , but what does Navistar have to keep us from doing these small HP changes in the system, Is it a federal thing or a Navistar thing?
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:59 PM   #60
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I just cant believe they lock these systems down so tight, I cant believe there is not someone out there who can hack into these things. I know we have emissions laws , but what does Navistar have to keep us from doing these small HP changes in the system, Is it a federal thing or a Navistar thing?
its not emissions its the similar to why peoiple have such issues unlocking 6th gear with their allisons.. lawyers..litigation..liability.. pure and simple.. even though you sign your life away. when you make a change. people still got lawyers which convinced juries that the manufacturer was liable..

along the same lines as juries sending bartenders to prison because they served someone who then went out and drove home.. even when witnesses testified that the bar patron told the bartender he wasnt driving..

its **THAT** bad in the legal system..

so navistar wants to make extra sure that the vehicle is "designed" to handle the extra HP before releasing it..

-Christopher
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