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Old 05-18-2018, 08:39 PM   #81
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Yes I did!
Nice!!Does it shift better than the 545? That lock up probably makes a huge difference.

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Old 05-18-2018, 08:40 PM   #82
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Nice!!Does it shift better than the 545? That lock up probably makes a huge difference.
Yes it does! It drives like a whole new bus. Recommend it to anyone considering it.

John
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:46 PM   #83
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your 1000 is probably built heavier than any stock 2000... you are running a defeo right? I thinkl all their builds are 250 HP plus at a minimum.. nothing a stock 444E is going to put out will hurt that trans...

stock 1000s are being run factory on duramaxxees in the 6500 / 7500 medium duty trucks..

I think some of the 1000 / 2000 were available with straight cut gears which gave a little more strength.. but you can tell those. they have that wierd whiney sound (you'll notice the in some of the early 2000s chevy 3500 Express and savannah vans..and Box trucks)..

the 1000 was used by navistar in the IC BE series with the VT365 engine it so Navistar isnt foreign to the 1000..

and you are right the case and most of the internals are the same..
-Christopher
Yes, Defeo built mine, they sent it to me with the those straight gears in it and man it was loud when it hit 6th gear. I sent them a video and they said send it back and they put the duramax gears in it, what huge differnce that made. Defeo was good to me.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:49 PM   #84
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Yes it does! It drives like a whole new bus. Recommend it to anyone considering it.

John
Thats great!!! I never really looked into that transmission before my conversion that might have been a good option on my end.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:08 PM   #85
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I have gotten the run around from navistar for both the HP increase and in changing my ECM trans type from AT/MT to MD. each dealer says they can get a case file open. but i never hear back.. I even went direct to navustar who told me I must work through a dealer.. im still working at it. but havent yet achieved success...
-Christopher
Back to our original Question, is there anyway to hack one these Navistar computers? I know like on android phones we unlock the bootloader, build custom ROMs and flash the chip in the phone. is anything like this possible on one the computers to remove the Navistar block?
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:55 PM   #86
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Also, I wonder how much higher I could go before having to do any other mods like cooling. Now with the new tranny, the coolant temp barely hits 200 even on the longest of climbs!
John
You could likely go to the 210 hp tune with no problems.
I'll bet if you call around you could find a dealer that would bump your 175 up to 195 or 210.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:14 PM   #87
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You could likely go to the 210 hp tune with no problems.
I'll bet if you call around you could find a dealer that would bump your 175 up to 195 or 210.
I'm gonna have to call the guy at the International dealership in Arizona that helped me with my transmission upgrade... hmmmmm...
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:01 AM   #88
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Back to our original Question, is there anyway to hack one these Navistar computers? I know like on android phones we unlock the bootloader, build custom ROMs and flash the chip in the phone. is anything like this possible on one the computers to remove the Navistar block?
I got mine with the helical gears.. suncoast asked me which i wanted and CAC explained to me what it meant.. I never knew till then..

as for hacking the ECM I just havent gotten into it deep enough to see.. my guess is there's a hash created when programming the engine..

I could use an RP1210 sniffer and change parameters and see what is sent across .. and do the age-old hacker-ways of change and compare.

the general language used is J1587 over J1708.. there is J1939 present on these computers. but it doesnt appear to be used for programming just for transmission / engine comms. J1587 is pretty easy to decipher, Navistar likely added their own proprietary layer on top of the standard J1587 for their own software and programming. I could possibly decompile the NavKal / ServiceMaxx software and see what is inside it..

lately work has had me pretty much consumed with a new software release coming out for my 3 products, plus I have a backlog of 19 sites and another 28 just came across yesterday, that pretty much is a backlog lasting into next year..

so havent had a lot of time to do ECM hacking..

add to that im getting more serious about selling my house and moving into downtown.. (the busses are staying where they are in the storage units)..

maybe at some point ill have time to hack again. I do hope to get some good bus trips in with all these installs..

back on topic - I did some playing around with some simulations in my bus over the same stretch of road.. I need to do it again and take videos..

I used EFIlive and programmed my allison 1000 as a 4 speed non lockup (545), a 4 speed with lockup (643), a 5 speed lockup (AD2000), and as its normal 6 speed self.. I climbed the jellico mountain on I-75 south and then went down going northbound.. the results were amazing for using lockup... on par with john's results just gaining lockup over non lockup..
-Christopher
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:50 AM   #89
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I got mine with the helical gears.. suncoast asked me which i wanted and CAC explained to me what it meant.. I never knew till then..

as for hacking the ECM I just havent gotten into it deep enough to see.. my guess is there's a hash created when programming the engine..

I could use an RP1210 sniffer and change parameters and see what is sent across .. and do the age-old hacker-ways of change and compare.

the general language used is J1587 over J1708.. there is J1939 present on these computers. but it doesnt appear to be used for programming just for transmission / engine comms. J1587 is pretty easy to decipher, Navistar likely added their own proprietary layer on top of the standard J1587 for their own software and programming. I could possibly decompile the NavKal / ServiceMaxx software and see what is inside it..

lately work has had me pretty much consumed with a new software release coming out for my 3 products, plus I have a backlog of 19 sites and another 28 just came across yesterday, that pretty much is a backlog lasting into next year..

so havent had a lot of time to do ECM hacking..

add to that im getting more serious about selling my house and moving into downtown.. (the busses are staying where they are in the storage units)..

maybe at some point ill have time to hack again. I do hope to get some good bus trips in with all these installs..

back on topic - I did some playing around with some simulations in my bus over the same stretch of road.. I need to do it again and take videos..

I used EFIlive and programmed my allison 1000 as a 4 speed non lockup (545), a 4 speed with lockup (643), a 5 speed lockup (AD2000), and as its normal 6 speed self.. I climbed the jellico mountain on I-75 south and then went down going northbound.. the results were amazing for using lockup... on par with john's results just gaining lockup over non lockup..
-Christopher
Wow where do you find the time, Sounds like you might need a vacation?

My main issue is not with my Transmission or my gears, or I don't think it is, my rear end is a 488 ratio, I don't know if I could go lower on that or not? Im just trying to get a little more HP, Im only running 175 HP on 33' bus loaded. And taking off in this bus from a dead stop has never been all the great even when it was totally empty, its never really any guts to it. When I get into the mountains on a really, really steep hill I'm really wondering if I'm gonna make it to the top.
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:08 AM   #90
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These folks offer a power upgrade for the T444: https://puredieselpower.com/#/product/581
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:16 AM   #91
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Here is another : Dfuser Stage 1 Power Module International Navistar T444e/466e/VT365 [T444e-S1] : Storm Automotive Technologies, Your one stop auto shop
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:22 AM   #92
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These folks offer a power upgrade for the T444: https://puredieselpower.com/#/product/581
I think these just tie into the ICP sensor causing it to dump in more fuel. They sometimes cause it to idle rough and gives you a little more black smoke. Thats what I read in the past, while looking for mods for the T444e.
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:25 AM   #93
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Wow where do you find the time, Sounds like you might need a vacation?

My main issue is not with my Transmission or my gears, or I don't think it is, my rear end is a 488 ratio, I don't know if I could go lower on that or not? Im just trying to get a little more HP, Im only running 175 HP on 33' bus loaded. And taking off in this bus from a dead stop has never been all the great even when it was totally empty, its never really any guts to it. When I get into the mountains on a really, really steep hill I'm really wondering if I'm gonna make it to the top.
What you're wanting is more torque, that what gets you going from a dead stop.
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Old 05-19-2018, 11:10 AM   #94
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What you're wanting is more torque, that what gets you going from a dead stop.
That is true, but I'm limited on options of obtaining that, my first try was going to the dealer to unlock the full HP rating that engine can produce, which I was hoping would give a little more boost from the turbo on the low end, may not have helped, but why not use you engine's full capability, when its just a matter of changing some parameters in the computer settings? The only other option is through gearing.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:35 PM   #95
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Yes, Defeo built mine, they sent it to me with the those straight gears in it and man it was loud when it hit 6th gear. I sent them a video and they said send it back and they put the duramax gears in it, what huge differnce that made. Defeo was good to me.

If anyone want to see 6th gear noise on my 1000 transmission with the straight cut gears, before I sent it back to Defeo for the Duramaxx gears to be installed. Believe or not this is a normal sound, and I also had the floor pan open which makes it a bit louder. Defeo said if they ever build one with this gear set in it they will forewarn the customer about the noise.



https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2X...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 05-19-2018, 03:09 PM   #96
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If anyone want to see 6th gear noise on my 1000 transmission with the straight cut gears, before I sent it back to Defeo for the Duramaxx gears to be installed. Believe or not this is a normal sound, and I also had the floor pan open which makes it a bit louder. Defeo said if they ever build one with this gear set in it they will forewarn the customer about the noise.



https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2X...ew?usp=sharing
Oh my!! No wonder you sent it back. That is just horrible!
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Old 05-19-2018, 03:13 PM   #97
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Oh my!! No wonder you sent it back. That is just horrible!
Yes, but it was normal for the straight gears, its much quieter now.
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Old 05-19-2018, 03:37 PM   #98
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straight gears are very loud... if you ever watch the videos of the european ralleye cars. with the high pitch whines asd they go through the gears those are straight-cut gears.. the thought behind them is that they are stronger than helical cut gears.

the TS-performance module is the one that i wonder if its a scam.. I tried to contact the place about it and got no response on several occasions..

sprogers is right most of these modules plug into the ICP module and fool the computer into running up the HPOP. .

there are 3 factors involved in fueling the 444E..

#1 Lift pressure - pre 2001 models ran at 47 PSI lift pressure.. many times a loud knock (like a rod knock) was heard because of lack of fuel to the #8 cylinder as it fires right after #7 (next door).. so Navistar created a spring kit that bumps lift pressure to 72 PSI.. when i installed it on my 444E I noticed smoother idle and a little better off the ground throttle response..

#2 - HPOP or High pressure oil pressure.. the 444E uses engine oil as hydrauklic fluid to help actuate the injectors. instead of having a high pressure injection pump, lift pressure is multiplied in the injector itself by pressurizing the fuel using high pressure engine oil.. the IPR is the pressure regulator, which is a modulated plunger to control pressure, the ICP is the sensor that senses the oil pressure.. the computer sets a desired pressure based on the inout parameters of the engine, throttle position, RPM, engine load factor, current turbo boost, and temperatures..

the higher the HPOP the more fuel will be injected into the cylinder during the injector pulse

#3 Injector pulse width (or length of time the injector is spraying).. this is an important one.. you can precisely control how the fuel is pushed into the cylinder by controlling HPOP and pulse width.. for instance an engine being Lugged at lower RPM will want its fuel delivered slowly. so a bit longer pulse width and lower HPOP is in order..

high RPM light load is the opposite..

high RPM high load you want both..


the programmers - that deal only with ICP. are essentially faking the computer into sending a higher HPOP... the nicer ones monitor throttle position and what the computer is coimmanding into the IPR... those are better at getting better idle quality and fuel delivery than the simplest ones which are simply a variable resistor.. yeah just drop a 10K resistor across your ICP.. it'll fuel heavier and give youy more power.. some guys have a momentary switch they use to engage the resistor when climbing a hill or such. and can go back to stock when not needed..


but ultimately you cant control the timing or the pulse width of the injection with just the ICP..


gears... 4.88 gears with 11R22.5 tires seems like it would be the best.. more common is ive seen 4.78 gears in school busses.. 5.13's might give you a bit better take off and climbing speed.. if I put 5.13's in with a .61 overdrive and wanted to drive 70+ MPH I would definitely take my driveshafts and yokes and have all precision balanced, and make sure the U-joints and carrier bearings are aligned perfectly for the straightest driveline possible...

-Christopher
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Old 05-19-2018, 04:08 PM   #99
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[QUOTE=cadillackid;270363]straight gears are very loud... if you ever watch the videos of the european ralleye cars. with the high pitch whines asd they go through the gears those are straight-cut gears.. the thought behind them is that they are stronger than helical cut gears.

the TS-performance module is the one that i wonder if its a scam.. I tried to contact the place about it and got no response on several occasions..

sprogers is right most of these modules plug into the ICP module and fool the computer into running up the HPOP. .

there are 3 factors involved in fueling the 444E..

#1 Lift pressure - pre 2001 models ran at 47 PSI lift pressure.. many times a loud knock (like a rod knock) was heard because of lack of fuel to the #8 cylinder as it fires right after #7 (next door).. so Navistar created a spring kit that bumps lift pressure to 72 PSI.. when i installed it on my 444E I noticed smoother idle and a little better off the ground throttle response..

#2 - HPOP or High pressure oil pressure.. the 444E uses engine oil as hydrauklic fluid to help actuate the injectors. instead of having a high pressure injection pump, lift pressure is multiplied in the injector itself by pressurizing the fuel using high pressure engine oil.. the IPR is the pressure regulator, which is a modulated plunger to control pressure, the ICP is the sensor that senses the oil pressure.. the computer sets a desired pressure based on the inout parameters of the engine, throttle position, RPM, engine load factor, current turbo boost, and temperatures..

the higher the HPOP the more fuel will be injected into the cylinder during the injector pulse

#3 Injector pulse width (or length of time the injector is spraying).. this is an important one.. you can precisely control how the fuel is pushed into the cylinder by controlling HPOP and pulse width.. for instance an engine being Lugged at lower RPM will want its fuel delivered slowly. so a bit longer pulse width and lower HPOP is in order..

high RPM light load is the opposite..

high RPM high load you want both..


the programmers - that deal only with ICP. are essentially faking the computer into sending a higher HPOP... the nicer ones monitor throttle position and what the computer is coimmanding into the IPR... those are better at getting better idle quality and fuel delivery than the simplest ones which are simply a variable resistor.. yeah just drop a 10K resistor across your ICP.. it'll fuel heavier and give youy more power.. some guys have a momentary switch they use to engage the resistor when climbing a hill or such. and can go back to stock when not needed..


but ultimately you cant control the timing or the pulse width of the injection with just the ICP..


gears... 4.88 gears with 11R22.5 tires seems like it would be the best.. more common is ive seen 4.78 gears in school busses.. 5.13's might give you a bit better take off and climbing speed.. if I put 5.13's in with a .61 overdrive and wanted to drive 70+ MPH I would definitely take my driveshafts and yokes and have all precision balanced, and make sure the U-joints and carrier bearings are aligned perfectly for the straightest driveline possible...

-Christopher[/QUOTE

I am running 10R22.5 tires and 4.88 gears. I wonder how much the 4.78 would change things, I know my speedometer would defiantly be out, but not top end would not be so good?

As far as DFUSER Stag 1 Power Module, I got the link from PNW_Steve a few posts back. I thought I would give him a call for $199 what have I got to lose, so I did he said he started building these for school bus racing for T444e buses, I thought was kind of crazy, but he said they got some pretty good results from them, so what the heck, I just purchased one today and I will be the guinea pig for it. He seemed pretty cool he said you also get a new camshaft sensor that is supposed to make it work better (more aggressive I think he said). He said it would not set any codes, so we will see.
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:12 PM   #100
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it was a little confusing to me as it said navistar but when you selected the 97-03 it said powerstroke 7.3.. cant hurt to call or email them though..

gb does bring up a good point and thats to make sure before considering power-adders that your engine is running to its potential stock first..

im not sure if I'd just shotgun all 8 injectors unless i had a compelling reason to do so.. though I dont doubt that in my case 140,000 miles of whatever crappy deisel fuels are out there have probably degraded the spray patterms of injectors..

my bus is a year 2000 my Engine is a year 99.. and there are a couple TSB's out on it that im applying..

one being that injector knock you get at low idle(if yours does it)... sounds like an intermittent rod knock but only does it at slow or just off slow idle..

there is a fuel pressure regulator upgrade that was never applied to my engine to take the low pressure rail from 47 to 72 PSI..

some of the ford guys did this and noted a light bit of increased performance esp right at take-off.. im doing it just because the knock annoys me.. (even though its deemed harmless)...

be sure your ICP asnd IPR are doing their job... if your ICP is beginning to fail but hasnt all the way it can result in low oil pressure at the rail which would end up in lower amounts of fuel per injection shot.

the ICP is the HPOP oil pressure sensor that the computer uses to determine whether to tell the IPR (HPOP pressure regulator) to up the pressure or not..

a lot of people just automatically replace the ICP when they buy a used 7.3, thats up to you..

if oyu connect the computer up and notice that your Commanded HPOP vs acrtual HPOP vary or the IPR duty cycle is all over the place to try and maintain then thats a good indicator either the ICP is flaky or the IPR is unable to respond to the computer;s requests... that directly affects performance..

GB: where di you buy your injectors from, and did you get a decent deal on them? if I do end up having to rteplace my #8 (per the TSB) for the idle knock then I might consider replacing them all just because id already be in the mode of tearing things apart..

there are also reports of the Lube oil pump becoming worn at 150k or so and ending up in lower than desirable oil pressure... some of the ford guys replaced theirs and went up 5-10 PSI in oil pressure on average... the Melling m208 is what they have been using... it is Stock Specs.. but in all the cases i read about online, their oil pumps showed wear when disassembled..

replacing the oil pump is a relatively easy procedure on these.. maintaining good lube oil flow will help with longevity.... the only time it would affect performance is if you ended up with an oil deficiency to your HPOP reservoire..

these engines in effect have some built in protection against running them out of oil... since no oil will also mean the fuel injectors fail to operate..

-Christopher


Hey Christopher, Ive been looking for a while for the solution to my injector knock Ive had since my purchase of the bus, it is intermittent, I just came across your old post here. I have have had a few diesel mechanics look at it and scratch their heads. I have ran the injector test numerous times and even ran stiction additive in it, and it still comes back. You said that it could also cause you to be sluggish on take off as well. Did it help you to change the low pressure fuel regulator? And did this help your knocking?
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