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Old 05-19-2018, 06:03 PM   #101
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Harlem, GA
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Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 65 passenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbloem1974 View Post
Yes it does! It drives like a whole new bus. Recommend it to anyone considering it.

John
What was the cost for the upgrade to MT643? Might be something I might want to do.

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Old 05-19-2018, 07:22 PM   #102
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,758
Year: 1991
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
there are 2 supposed fixes for the injector knock.. the first one is the spring kit I mentiioned that takes your lift pressure from 40's to 70's.. it helped some wuth my injector knock.. mine was VERY pronounced at hot idle.

the second is putting the AE injector in the #8 position... or if replacing your injectors with aftermarket reman's its not needed, they are typically better flowing injectors than the stock ..

my engine has 9100+ hours on it and 175k now I think? thats about a good time for me to swap the injectors with 'alliance' or 'reman auto parts' units..

when I run a buzz test on mine they all buzz but a couple sometimes sound a little "weaker' so im thinking ill replace them all..

im interested to see how your programmer works.. I may get one if your bus doesnt explode in the first 5 minutes..

my 444E is a 190HP and the bus is a short 6 row so with my new trans i do pretty good goin down the road.. o1marc had it damn near 80 when we were rollin from OKC to memphis..


as for changing tires and your speedo, thats an easy program edit with servicemaxx in the computer, you input the number of revs per mile of your tires and that fixes the speedo.. you can also change the final drive and rear end ratio too.. i altered mine.. i havent played around with changing those parameters to different configurations that still give the same complete final ratio to see if it fuels differently.. I know mine tends to get into the fuel a bit too slowly on hills with the cruise control, so it slows down and downshifts once sometimes twice to play catch up... then over-shoots..
-Christopher
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:42 PM   #103
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Location: Montana/Texas
Posts: 682
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Crown by Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 230 HP DT 466e/MT 643!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadawg9 View Post
What was the cost for the upgrade to MT643? Might be something I might want to do.
I got a reman one from the dealer, which set me back just shy of 5 grand! More than I paid for my bus. However, I have the piece of mind of a nationwide 2 year warranty.
I've known people who were able to find a decent used one for under 2 grand. Them the cost of installation unless you have the tools/,time/space to do it yourself. I was stuck in Quartzsite, AZ and did not have that luxury...
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:48 PM   #104
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Year: 1998
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 230 HP DT 466e/MT 643!
Rated Cap: 16
I got one of those "HP increase" units from TS. Didn't work. Couldn't even tell a difference. I'd turn the dial while I was driving and felt absolutely ZERO difference. I'm going to recheck all the wires to make sure it's all hooked up right, but there are only 2 connections.

I'm curious to see how the other one works. Maybe I'll get that one.

I'm also calling the International dealer on Monday to open a case....

John
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:35 PM   #105
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Year: 2002
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Is the spring kit the same as the powerstroke kit with the blue spring? My injectors have buzzed out sounding good every-time we have tested them. My bus is right at 170,000 and about 9800 hours on it. When its warmed up to operating temperature it runs great, but I cant pull out of the driveway if it below 170 it runs like crap and no power. It is really a dog anyway on take off, I have to add a lot of Diesel Kleen Cetane boost at every fill up, without it, its a real dog. I will give the programmer a try before swapping out the differential, and you will be the first to know if mine explodes with the programmer.
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:08 PM   #106
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For those of you looking into slight power increases on your buses I would obviously recommend working with the dealer first and see how far they will take you in increasing your power level. After those options have been exhausted or any further increases will require significant upgrades to engine components (turbo, hpop, injectors, etc.) I would highly recommend you look into a water/methanol injection system. They are probably one of the best bang for the buck upgrades. From everything that I have seen you can expect to see a minimum of a 10% increase in power and often times even more. When I get a chance I will be installing a system from Snow on my bus. Taking my 660 lb-ft DT up to ~725 should be really nice when pulling long grades. The MD3060 is rated up to 800 lb-ft if I'm not mistaken.

And a note on the fuel pressure for HEUI engines, the DTs have 70psi so I would aim for the same in the T444E.
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:08 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spgrogers View Post
Is the spring kit the same as the powerstroke kit with the blue spring? My injectors have buzzed out sounding good every-time we have tested them. My bus is right at 170,000 and about 9800 hours on it. When its warmed up to operating temperature it runs great, but I cant pull out of the driveway if it below 170 it runs like crap and no power. It is really a dog anyway on take off, I have to add a lot of Diesel Kleen Cetane boost at every fill up, without it, its a real dog. I will give the programmer a try before swapping out the differential, and you will be the first to know if mine explodes with the programmer.

Does your have the setup that holds the turbo closed to warm up faster, and it's not opening like it should? Sounds like something to check at least. Not all T444's have this IIRC.
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:58 PM   #108
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
Does your have the setup that holds the turbo closed to warm up faster, and it's not opening like it should? Sounds like something to check at least. Not all T444's have this IIRC.
Im not sure on that I never even looked into that, but I don't think it does. I will look tomorrow.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:21 AM   #109
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
if it runs good when warm but total crap when cold it sure sounds like the EBPV (Exhaust BackPressure Valve.) system is operating.. it is designed to warm the engine up quicker but definitely robs power when its cold.. mine is from texas and doesnt have it.. it can be turned off in the computer.. if it sticks it will cause you issues when warmed up.. mine doesnt have it and I made it through 2 winters so far with the only no-start I had being this winter when my batteries gave up .. (I only got 3 seconds of cranking before it was flat ).. I let the engine run a couple minutes and then take off and it still warms up no issues without the EBPV.. and I run *ALL* my heaters on high pretty much all the time if its 0 outside..

my engine seems to run great other than a slight pulsation in the exhaust esp when cold.. those ive talked to state thats a first sign injectors are starting to go..

175 HP in a full length bus is definitely not going to be powerful.. I think about mine even when climbing hills.. a 190 in a 6 window bus.. i slow down some so i can imagine a 175 in a full size being a sled in the hills..

as for the spring kit, i know I posted it here in one of my threads, the navistar part number.. i dont remember what color the spring is.. I know it raised the pressure.. from what I casn tell it can be installed on any 444E 97+. supposedly you can tell if its got an upgraded kit by the nut... notched or not..

here is the post where I got the spring kit from navistar.. itsdpost #129.

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f18/go...tml#post167819

I can get the TSI if you want to see it.. its in my Navistar OnCommand software which is on my WinDoZZZZZZE computer ..

for newbies here that havent see my trans swap thread and is thinking they might tackle a 545 to 1000 conversion. I chronicled what I did in this thread..

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f27/th...ion-18188.html

-Christopher..
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:04 PM   #110
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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I did have issues with EBPV when I first bought the bus, it was setting a code I cleaned the tube and put in a new sensor, haven't had anymore issues with that. I don't if turning that option off would change anything?

I did check the Brass nut is notched, I think I will still put a gauge on it to see what kind of pressure I'm running just to be sure, my idle is always smooth, I never have any rough idle cold or warm, just the noisy injector every now and then. I thought this might be an issue with accelerating from an idle. When I accelerate right off idle I can't really go much until I can get enough boost from the turbo.
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:24 PM   #111
Bus Geek
 
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
on take off there can be a couple things working against you..

1. V8 engines just dont have the brute force torque that I6 engines have.. this is most noticeable when trying to start out wit ha heavy load.. turbos take time to spool... i can see it on the computer in mine how long the turbo takes to spin up..

2. what stall speed is your converter? the converter im running in mine is a high performance model that gives me a bit higher RPM with a low turbine speed and then it tightens up as the turbine speed increases.. this allows me to build RPMs quickly when I mash the throttle..

3. are you locking the converter up part way through 2nd gear? if not you should.. this helps greatly with aceleration up to freeway speed..

-Christopher
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:42 PM   #112
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As far as my torque converter goes, talking with Jeff at Defeo when they built the transmission we talked about this issue, so we went will a lowest stall speed we could go with. I guess your Torque converter may have maybe been a better option for me. As far as lock up in second gear, I don't think so, Jason said setting up the T444e was not his specialty as far as shift points, he said he was more accustomed to cat and other diesels. it would probably be easier for him if he was driving the bus to be able to determine a better shift setup. I really dont mind the setup I have once i get rolling it moves along pretty well.
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Old 05-20-2018, 02:50 PM   #113
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I just found this from the same Guy I bought the Programmer.

Dfuser 1002017 1994-2003 Ford Powerstroke 7.3L Exhaust Back-Pressure Sensor Eliminator Stage-I [DFR-1002017] : Storm Automotive Technologies, Your one stop auto shop
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Old 05-20-2018, 04:00 PM   #114
Bus Geek
 
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
you dont need it.. just turn the EBPV mode to disable in the ECM.. it will not try to use it.

as for your lock up I have the full EFILive so if we ever end up at the same place at the same time we can tweak it.. I gave jason quite a bit of feedback on what I was doing with mine.. originally my TCM was set to GMC standard which I guess is only lockup in 5 and 6.. I hated that..

I was on the fence and tried different programs for whether to lock in 2nd or not and it came about that even with the turbo spooled running at the top of the RPM range in 2nd, the power loss due to non-locked was bad so i lock it near the middle of second gear.. and it stays locked pretty much all the time afterwords.. it CAN unlock in 3rd at low vehicle speeds because the forced cold weather high idle even in 'D' would give me some trouble when the bus was dead cold. if I didnt unlock based on slow vehicle speeds..

otherwise jason's program is pretty good.. ive got mine dialed in tight now(after almost a year of playing and lots of road trips)..

to those contemplating a trans swap...

yes it was expensive however its well worth it in the gained fuel economy.. (easily 25-30%) and alot less wear and tear on the engine not having to run it at near its redline all the time on the highway..

knowing the gains that john got going from a 545 to a 643 i might make that swap on my DEV bus if its 545 ever gives out.

-Christopher
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:12 PM   #115
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Can I use these to access my computer to disable my EBPV?


https://www.navistarservicesoftware....p/servicemaxx/


https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEXIQ-12503...5.c10#viTabs_0

And talking about computer my WinDoZZZZZZE computer, it crashed with all my EFI Live files. I don't use Windows for anything, but EFI Live, I only have a EFI box and not the full setup.

I don't think I will be in Ohio anytime soon, I'm original from around the Mansfield area and my family is all there, and Im in Virginia Beach. I plan to take a trip next month to Tennessee next month thats why I need to get the bus ready for the mountains. I might give Jason a call and do some more tuning maybe he can figure out something similar to your setup or maybe if you wouldn't you could send Jason a EFI Live file so he can see your setup and maybe he can pattern it along side my files that he built me earlier.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:41 PM   #116
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spgrogers View Post
Can I use these to access my computer to disable my EBPV?


https://www.navistarservicesoftware....p/servicemaxx/


https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEXIQ-12503...5.c10#viTabs_0

And talking about computer my WinDoZZZZZZE computer, it crashed with all my EFI Live files. I don't use Windows for anything, but EFI Live, I only have a EFI box and not the full setup.

I don't think I will be in Ohio anytime soon, I'm original from around the Mansfield area and my family is all there, and Im in Virginia Beach. I plan to take a trip next month to Tennessee next month thats why I need to get the bus ready for the mountains. I might give Jason a call and do some more tuning maybe he can figure out something similar to your setup or maybe if you wouldn't you could send Jason a EFI Live file so he can see your setup and maybe he can pattern it along side my files that he built me earlier.
yeppers! thats the chinese knock-off of the Nexiq tool and everyone ive talked ot thus far says they work just as good as the original and these cost a lot less.. and the free servicemaxx J1708 will program your computer.. you can change speed limiters, oil change intervals, auto idle parameters, EBPV, electric fan, etc.. cant change the trans type (grrr) snd cant do Horsepower (Bigger Grrr)..
-Christopher
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:48 PM   #117
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Thats great I've thinking about buying one for a while, wasn't sure if it would do the job, now I have a reason.

I will eventually need some more tuning on my trans, when I'm on load 6th gear cruising along 2100 RPM sometimes it tries to downshift to 5th no big deal easy to work around. I haven't really got to try out this Trans on any mountains yet, but my first 4 gears are pretty much what I already had in my 545. Last year we found ourselves on a back road in the Shenandoah mountains, and it was windy, narrow and steeep, man almost didn't have enough guts to climb it.
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Old 05-23-2018, 04:03 PM   #118
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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The Programmer from dfuser.com

Well it arrived today, The Programmer came in just 3 days with free shipping $199. I'm still kind of skeptical. I will try to get it in this evening or tomorrow, and If its working I will do a short video of the results for anyone interested.
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Old 05-23-2018, 04:38 PM   #119
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
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Posts: 18,758
Year: 1991
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
cool stuff!. it appears to be an ICP manipulator.. im interested to know how it works and to see the wiring diagram of how they have you connect it up.
-Christopher
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:15 PM   #120
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Year: 2002
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I have managed to install the programmer enough to test drive it, and I must say it does kick those horses up a little bit, and I was surprised. I noticed the biggest increase was on take off from a dead stop, I didn't get get very much highway driving time just a few miles. It really made a difference while running the factory AC, which really robs my HP, it still took off quite well, however I did not install the camshaft sensor that they sent with the kit. I looked at it, and at first I was thinking it was a china knock off, and then I looked at the part# and it is a # 1876736C91. I always thought that the camshaft sensor was just a magnetic sensor, but I have read a few forums that say otherwise, I am running a OEM Motorcraft cam sensor that I just replaced last year, maybe I should give this one a shot and see what kind of changes it makes.

The hook ups are basic, one ground wire, and a red wire that taps into the ICP. There is a 3 position switch economy, off and performance, which you can tell the idle change when you switch to that position. also there is the variable knob which I assume just changes the resistance.
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