Increasing HP on T444E

[cadillackid]

neat stuff! whats interesting is on my bus IO never notice a difference of when my A/C compressor is on or off.. then again im in a lot lighter bus than yours.

that cam sensor is a Navistar part number, from what I remember fords had real issues with the CPS.. (ford didnt use the OEM navistar part number).. so they probably sent this one. as many ford owners replaced their ford CPS with the navistar one.. toss it in your onboard tool box and remember its there in case yours fails.. but theres no real performance gain or loss related to that sensor.. its there purely for RPM sense and injector timing. if you are setting CPS codes or getting definite random misses in your engine, it can be a sign the CPS is missing pulses.
-Christopher

[spgrogers]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

neat stuff! whats interesting is on my bus IO never notice a difference of when my A/C compressor is on or off.. then again im in a lot lighter bus than yours.

that cam sensor is a Navistar part number, from what I remember fords had real issues with the CPS.. (ford didnt use the OEM navistar part number).. so they probably sent this one. as many ford owners replaced their ford CPS with the navistar one.. toss it in your onboard tool box and remember its there in case yours fails.. but theres no real performance gain or loss related to that sensor.. its there purely for RPM sense and injector timing. if you are setting CPS codes or getting definite random misses in your engine, it can be a sign the CPS is missing pulses.
-Christopher

I Haven't been able to get out to do anything with the Programmer, as the family and myself have been down with whatever is going around.
I hope to get back to work soon, and get it completely installed.

I have been thinking a lot about this setup, and I wonder is this the similar setup that Navistar might use to increase the Hp? I can't understand if they are all using the same basic engine components on the 175 HP to 210 HP engines, what method are they using to change the HP? The only thing I can figure is through regulating the HPOP and ICP to increase the fuel to the injectors. I haven't really been able to completely test this programmer, but I am pretty impressed by the increase that I get from it.

[cadillackid]

yucky ucky! ive noticed alot of people getting the summer "colds".. those are the worst



Navistar can use the ICP, the injection timing, and the injector pulse width to increase the HP.
-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

yucky ucky! ive noticed alot of people getting the summer "colds".. those are the worst



Navistar can use the ICP, the injection timing, and the injector pulse width to increase the HP.
-Christopher

I got sick over a week ago. Still not 100% over it.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I got sick over a week ago. Still not 100% over it.

its a bad strain... I know of several that got it and it likes to just hang on.. !
hope you shake it soon!
-Christopher

[johnbloem1974]

Originally Posted by spgrogers

I haven't really been able to completely test this programmer, but I am pretty impressed by the increase that I get from it.

What one did you use? I got one from TS Performance (the MP-8 I think...)
I felt absolutely ZERO difference no matter where I had the dial. Quite disappointed, especially since I'm already past the 30 days and can't get my money back...

John

[spgrogers]

I guess my main thought was, is that even though I can't get the dealer to boost my HP to its full capability, I think that I'm still able to achieve something close to what the engine's full capability at stock, though I'm still not a able to advance the timing, I still think I'm getting probably close to to their claims of 30 HP. On the other hand the installation instructions say, that they recommend that you use a gauge to monitor the exhaust temps. I'm thinking I probably wont run this out on the highway, and will probably only use it when I need the extra HP.

[spgrogers]

Originally Posted by johnbloem1974

What one did you use? I got one from TS Performance (the MP-8 I think...)
I felt absolutely ZERO difference no matter where I had the dial. Quite disappointed, especially since I'm already past the 30 days and can't get my money back...

John

Here is the one I got, Dfuser Stage 1 Power Module,Thanks to PNW_Steve for the link.

I really only noticed a difference on take off from a dead stop, and I really haven't done much highway driving with it either. My main issue is taking off, sometimes it takes so long to get moving the stop light will change red before I even get half way through it. With this Programmer it makes a pretty big difference for me, and I really don't care too much about the the highway driving anyway we do pretty good once we are already moving.

*** Note My engine is only rated at 175 HP, so I am not getting the 210 HP that I am capable of, do you know what yours is rated at?***

Dfuser Stage 1 Power Module International Navistar T444e/466e/VT365 [T444e-S1] : Storm Automotive Technologies, Your one stop auto shop

[spgrogers]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

its a bad strain... I know of several that got it and it likes to just hang on.. !
hope you shake it soon!
-Christopher

Thanks Man

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by spgrogers

Here is the one I got, Dfuser Stage 1 Power Module,Thanks to PNW_Steve for the link.



I really only noticed a difference on take off from a dead stop, and I really haven't done much highway driving with it either. My main issue is taking off, sometimes it takes so long to get moving the stop light will change red before I even get half way through it. With this Programmer it makes a pretty big difference for me, and I really don't care too much about the the highway driving anyway we do pretty good once we are already moving.





Dfuser Stage 1 Power Module International Navistar T444e/466e/VT365 [T444e-S1] : Storm Automotive Technologies, Your one stop auto shop

I’m going to order one and try it out. I should be able to monitor duty cycle on IPR before and after. That value isn’t faked, plus I should be able to see a difference in my turbo at various RPM. I’m not sure how navistar limits max power , it’s possible they defuel once your turbo reaches a certain boost level.
Christopher

[johnbloem1974]

Originally Posted by spgrogers

Here is the one I got, Dfuser Stage 1 Power Module,Thanks to PNW_Steve for the link.

I really only noticed a difference on take off from a dead stop, and I really haven't done much highway driving with it either. My main issue is taking off, sometimes it takes so long to get moving the stop light will change red before I even get half way through it. With this Programmer it makes a pretty big difference for me, and I really don't care too much about the the highway driving anyway we do pretty good once we are already moving.

*** Note My engine is only rated at 175 HP, so I am not getting the 210 HP that I am capable of, do you know what yours is rated at?***

I have a DT466E, but it is only rated at 175HP also. I'm sure I could probably get to at least 230HP without any additional modifications. Especially now that I have an MT643 transmission... my issue is with hills. Even at 175HP, mine has enough torque to where starting from a stop isn't an issue.

John

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by johnbloem1974

I have a DT466E, but it is only rated at 175HP also. I'm sure I could probably get to at least 230HP without any additional modifications. Especially now that I have an MT643 transmission... my issue is with hills. Even at 175HP, mine has enough torque to where starting from a stop isn't an issue.

John

up to 215 on the 466E is i believe the limit till the Hardware changes.. there were versions of the 466E listed as 'High Torque', and I believe injectors and turbo are different.. along with the programming of course. similar to the 230 and 250 variants of the 444E.



from what I understand its possible to alter the Low torque versions.. but getting navistar to perform an HP upgrade is near impossible.. they often tell people to upgrade suspensions, brakes, transmissions, driveshafts, frame gossets, rear ends, etc.. before they will do it.. the programmers should be able to give a little.. high performance injectors are another way.. they will flow more per the same oil pressure and pulse width.. the object with a diesel is more fuel and air in the cylinder = more power. I need to play more with this to see if the turbo boost sensor is a factor.. ie the computer backs off if the boost reaches certain. limits.. that would ultimately limit the amount of power produced
-Christopher

[spgrogers]

I would be curious to know as well, I just wonder if Im seeing a big jump in HP only because my engine is limited to the 175 HP. I think you said you are at 190 Hp, maybe you might not see as much difference as I do. But If an engine is was already rated at 210 HP though I wonder, how would Navistar system would limit max output?

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by spgrogers

I would be curious to know as well, I just wonder if Im seeing a big jump in HP only because my engine is limited to the 175 HP. I think you said you are at 190 Hp, maybe you might not see as much difference as I do. But If an engine is was already rated at 210 HP though I wonder, how would Navistar system would limit max output?

in a stock fashion the engine gives back to the ECM, the Lube oil pressure, HPOP supply pressure(ICP), the IPR duty cycle (commanded IPR), RPM, and Turbo Boost PSI..


Valve timing is fixed with the cam, Injector timing is controllable, as well as pulse width (length of time its turned on), HPOP commanded (IPR) is controllable..


technically Navistar could have in the program that for a given HP range the turbo is limited to 'X' PSI, they could look at the duty cycle of the IPR and deem its too high for the turbo its getting and ICP its reading back. and set a code or back off.. they can control the timing at which they fire the injector as well. (timing advance / retard).



for instance on a mechanical diesel, if you fuel heavier many people advance the timing a couple degrees.. advanced timing is often a power adder but it raises cylinder (and EGT) temps..



they could also reduce the injector pulse width if they felt like its fueling too much..



but from what I understand HPOP is how they do most control.. that the injectors have a 'Max fuel output' per shot.. for instance the High torque 444E was sold with AC (160cc) injectors.. the AD's flow their fuel in a split-shot method and flow out 135-140cc max per shot. aftermarket companies make various injectors which flow more fuel including high flow AD's..



Poswer-adding on diesel is a bit new to me.. im still taking in a lot of data. and doing a lot of talking to people in the 7.3 PS community that i know who have bumped up their trucks.. at some point the Hardware becomes the limit...



-Christopher

[cadillackid]

ive made the decision to go a different direction and have ordered a set of injectors.. knowing I have over 9000 hours and a couple that are a little weak on the Buzz test, i figure thats where my starting position needs to be.. I ordered some stage 1's which are a 15% flow increase.. these will work with all stock components.. i should have them shortly after I return home end of next week.
-Christopher

[spgrogers]

How much more HP could you gain with 15% more flow increase?

[cadillackid]

no real idea unless I were to put it on the rollers before and after.. the biggest things seem to be if the injectors are worn.. and im leanring trhey dont have to smoke or fail tests to cause power loss.. lots of people state their 444E woke-up after even just stock reman replacements.. someone here did it a year or so ago.. cant remember who it was.. they did stock-stock.


the 15% increase or "stage 1" as places call them. seems to be the most recommended by anyone without engine mods and tunes..



on a ford 7.3, stage 1's are claimed to give up to 50HP. but those engines are different than ours in cam, max RPM, headgasket thickness.. the injectors are identical between the fords and the Navistars.


I'll take some stop watch videos before and after. doing point to point. a local car dealer Mall has a "test strip". Ok a legal road so you can scream.. but the guys never get bothered test driving the SRT8's STi's. so i figure i can go run a bus along it a few times no issues..



I could call the local 1/4 drag strip and see if a commercial vehicle is allowed on test / tune night and go get a time slip.. used to run my hotrods there all the time.


-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

up to 215 on the 466E is i believe the limit till the Hardware changes.. there were versions of the 466E listed as 'High Torque', and I believe injectors and turbo are different.. along with the programming of course. similar to the 230 and 250 variants of the 444E.



from what I understand its possible to alter the Low torque versions.. but getting navistar to perform an HP upgrade is near impossible.. they often tell people to upgrade suspensions, brakes, transmissions, driveshafts, frame gossets, rear ends, etc.. before they will do it.. the programmers should be able to give a little.. high performance injectors are another way.. they will flow more per the same oil pressure and pulse width.. the object with a diesel is more fuel and air in the cylinder = more power. I need to play more with this to see if the turbo boost sensor is a factor.. ie the computer backs off if the boost reaches certain. limits.. that would ultimately limit the amount of power produced
-Christopher

ST or Standard Torque DT466's went up to 230.
I'm looking for one complete with ECM.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

ST or Standard Torque DT466's went up to 230.
I'm looking for one complete with ECM.

yours is the High torque isnt it?

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

yours is the High torque isnt it?

Nope its ST 215hp.