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Old 10-18-2016, 08:23 PM   #1
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Increasing HP on T444E

I am the owner of a 2000 T444e at 175hp from the factory ... I've been looking at ways to increase HP for a little more power on the hills. Ran across this recommended on a diesel forum: SP Diesel 99-03 7.3L Ford PowerStroke Diesel SIe +65HP/110TQ $299.99... it even has a fuel economy setting that is purported to pay for itself in a year or so of driving...

For $300 I can dial up the HP from my dash panel when needed to get a little more power out of the engine. Assuming I am watching temps, RPMs, oil pressure, yada yada -- anyone have experience with a performance mod like this? Will it disable my governor on the electronic engine?

Also found this one: Dfuser 1001100 1994-2007 Ford Powerstroke 7.3L/6.0L 18K Power Module ... similar concept but not quite intuitive for $80.

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Old 10-18-2016, 09:01 PM   #2
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Even though the TE444 and the power stroke are essentially the same engine, the engine controls are different, powerstroke tuner boxes will not work on the international
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:07 PM   #3
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Even though the TE444 and the power stroke are essentially the same engine, the engine controls are different, powerstroke tuner boxes will not work on the international
Recommendations? The first link I referenced had an International specific version. I would think this should work, no?
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:34 PM   #4
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you MAY be able to get an international dealer to run you up to the 195 HP tune... from what I understand the 175 and 195 are exactly the same hardware... when you go to the 215 I think IHC used a bigger turbo...

you are on the diamond PCM which is in fact Not OBD-II as mentioned..

you can talk to PowerHungry Performance.. they have done tons of work on the ford 7.3, and i think one of their engi eers messed around with souping up the international version.. they may have some pointers to use for the T-444E.

just remember, while the 7.3 is a pretty rock solid engine.. it is NOT as indestructible as people make it out to be when you run a Heavy tune on it...

of course you could always look into a propane injection system and a bigger turbo... but in the end I think you'll need to mess with the program of the ECM..

-Christopher
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:43 PM   #5
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you MAY be able to get an international dealer to run you up to the 195 HP tune... from what I understand the 175 and 195 are exactly the same hardware... when you go to the 215 I think IHC used a bigger turbo...

you are on the diamond PCM which is in fact Not OBD-II as mentioned..

you can talk to PowerHungry Performance.. they have done tons of work on the ford 7.3, and i think one of their engi eers messed around with souping up the international version.. they may have some pointers to use for the T-444E.

just remember, while the 7.3 is a pretty rock solid engine.. it is NOT as indestructible as people make it out to be when you run a Heavy tune on it...

of course you could always look into a propane injection system and a bigger turbo... but in the end I think you'll need to mess with the program of the ECM..

-Christopher
I'll have to talk to PowerHungry. I'd be open to swapping out the turbo. The first chip I mentioned actually had a product available for "International" ... I assumed this would have worked. No?

PS - Chris, we have got to exchange phone numbers and meet up some time to talk about our Carpenters. I'll send you a PM.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by warewolff View Post
I'll have to talk to PowerHungry. I'd be open to swapping out the turbo. The first chip I mentioned actually had a product available for "International" ... I assumed this would have worked. No?

PS - Chris, we have got to exchange phone numbers and meet up some time to talk about our Carpenters. I'll send you a PM.

i didnt rea link.. but the early internationals and fords used the same ECM from what i recall... 94-97 i think were the years... then international introduced new computers...

im not really sure why there needed to be 2 different computers, other than i know IHC's tunes are quite conservative compared to ford...

part of it is IHC tunes are VERY bottom-end heavy for solid torque to move a big box truck or bus off the line... whereas ford tuned for the "consumer bragging rights"... 'my truck has more horsepower than yours...' to keep up with the Dodges and later the chevies..

IHC also runs very conservative tunes because of the ratings of the ASllison transmissions.. esp the AT545... that said in my old 454 gasser bus, I made that engine pretty Built and i never junked the AT545.. so I have a feeling allison is conservative on their on their ratings to keep a good longevity record... there are 545's with 300k+ on their fasctory build... im not sure how long the tranny in my gasser bus wouldve lasted behind a 400+ horsepower bigblock.. I never got the chance to break it..

im not sure if I'll try and soup up my new bird or not... the T-444E (190 HP).. in a little 16k GVWR 6 window bus actually moves it along nicely.. I cant imagine it in 175 HP form in a heavy full size bus like a carpenter.. im not sure if yours is built like the tank mine is.. but my 7 row carpenter is 27,500 GVWR.. and i know empty its HEAVY!.. that bus has a DT-360 and does OK.. (the DT is a great torque monster below 1500 RPM)..

-Christopher
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Old 10-18-2016, 10:07 PM   #7
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some times the downside to making more HP, is loosing reliability , yes I would for sure like some more ponies on my t444e, but I 'm leaving it stock, and spend the money on up keep. I will say, that when I replaced the injectors it made a big difference in performance.
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Old 10-18-2016, 11:14 PM   #8
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The first link referenced an international specifically 97-03.
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Old 10-19-2016, 07:31 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by warewolff View Post
The first link referenced an international specifically 97-03.

it was a little confusing to me as it said navistar but when you selected the 97-03 it said powerstroke 7.3.. cant hurt to call or email them though..

gb does bring up a good point and thats to make sure before considering power-adders that your engine is running to its potential stock first..

im not sure if I'd just shotgun all 8 injectors unless i had a compelling reason to do so.. though I dont doubt that in my case 140,000 miles of whatever crappy deisel fuels are out there have probably degraded the spray patterms of injectors..

my bus is a year 2000 my Engine is a year 99.. and there are a couple TSB's out on it that im applying..

one being that injector knock you get at low idle(if yours does it)... sounds like an intermittent rod knock but only does it at slow or just off slow idle..

there is a fuel pressure regulator upgrade that was never applied to my engine to take the low pressure rail from 47 to 72 PSI..

some of the ford guys did this and noted a light bit of increased performance esp right at take-off.. im doing it just because the knock annoys me.. (even though its deemed harmless)...

be sure your ICP asnd IPR are doing their job... if your ICP is beginning to fail but hasnt all the way it can result in low oil pressure at the rail which would end up in lower amounts of fuel per injection shot.

the ICP is the HPOP oil pressure sensor that the computer uses to determine whether to tell the IPR (HPOP pressure regulator) to up the pressure or not..

a lot of people just automatically replace the ICP when they buy a used 7.3, thats up to you..

if oyu connect the computer up and notice that your Commanded HPOP vs acrtual HPOP vary or the IPR duty cycle is all over the place to try and maintain then thats a good indicator either the ICP is flaky or the IPR is unable to respond to the computer;s requests... that directly affects performance..

GB: where di you buy your injectors from, and did you get a decent deal on them? if I do end up having to rteplace my #8 (per the TSB) for the idle knock then I might consider replacing them all just because id already be in the mode of tearing things apart..

there are also reports of the Lube oil pump becoming worn at 150k or so and ending up in lower than desirable oil pressure... some of the ford guys replaced theirs and went up 5-10 PSI in oil pressure on average... the Melling m208 is what they have been using... it is Stock Specs.. but in all the cases i read about online, their oil pumps showed wear when disassembled..

replacing the oil pump is a relatively easy procedure on these.. maintaining good lube oil flow will help with longevity.... the only time it would affect performance is if you ended up with an oil deficiency to your HPOP reservoire..

these engines in effect have some built in protection against running them out of oil... since no oil will also mean the fuel injectors fail to operate..

-Christopher
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Old 10-19-2016, 09:38 AM   #10
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How much is the increase in horsepower going to help you if your rear end gear bound? Just curious, because I have spoken to International and they have checked my trans and rear gear ratio and have said that my power issues are probably because my bus is gear bound.
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Old 10-19-2016, 10:11 AM   #11
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gear bound is if you are consistently running at the RPM redline and not going fast enough... power bound is if you are floored and running belkow your RPM redline.. or when your bus slows on hills the RPM's are dropping also...

if you are gear bound.. in a 2003 you should have a 6 speed transmission that is limited to 5 speeds by computer.. if you are gear bound and got your 6th gear unlocked, that would help significantly with that..

if you are power-bound then doing some upgrades would help.. but first you have to determine whether gear or power bound..

-Christopher
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Old 10-19-2016, 10:29 AM   #12
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And remember...horsepower is not what moves a load. It is torque. But even with tons of torque, without the right gearing you'll never hit the right speeds at the right RPM's to keep everything happy.
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Old 10-19-2016, 10:36 AM   #13
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Tango is right!!

the T-444E in most scenerios is designed to run ast a max of 2700 RPM.. HOWEVER it PEAKS at 2300 RPM.. so as close to 2300 RPM as it can be kept is where you are going to get the most power from it..

running it any faster is simply a gift to be able to over-run on flat ground due to gears if necessary...

some of the tunes out there change where the TQ / HP curve crosses and alters the RPMs...

Ford spins these guys well over 3000 so the bottom end can take it.. However im guessing a consumer pickup truck may not have have a 300,000 mile design to it before rebuild like a commercial truck...

I may be wrong but i think I read somewhere that 250k is the average life of a T-444E before expecting to do major things to it.. doesnt mean yoiu wont go farther and doesnt mean you wont need to repair it sooner.. its an average..

-Christopher
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Old 10-19-2016, 10:57 AM   #14
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Thanks for the replies, very good and useful information.

I have to check for my notes, but I believe my rear end is a 7:17 and was told that at 175HP @ 2600 Max RPM's, and that would equate to 67 MPH wide open.

I just picked up my bus a couple of weeks ago and drove it 260 miles home after having the school district re-program the governor to 75 mph. I could never get it over 70 even descending down hills.

I'll have to check on the sixth gear reference.
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:02 PM   #15
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tryi ng to get it over 70 without additional gearing could have bad effects... if in fact you were at 2600 running 67 MPH.. with the TCC locked in.. and downhill you attempt to run it over 70.. im assuming the TCC stays locked which means now your revs are going over the stated 2700 RPM factory max.. the computer may be smart enough to unlock the TCC so the engine just free revs at 2600... I dont know enough about the later model allisons to know howe it handles over-speed on a downhill..

at the very least you were putting zero input power to the bus at that poiont so your downhill speed was a Big ole Box against the wind and helped by gravity.. has to be one heck of a hill to coast over 70 in a bus...

-Christopher
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:28 PM   #16
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This was just something that I never really thought about before this, so I wasn't sure if it was a mechanical problem or not. After the discussions it makes all the sense on the world. I did learn from International that different states require different gearing on their buses, so it is possible that depending on the originating state of your bus, you could end up with a better gear ratio. NC for instance is 6:83 on the standard bus and 6:50 on the activity buses at 215 HP, to get little Johnny to his game faster.
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:32 PM   #17
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I am not trying to overcome my gearing. My engine is computer controlled and as I coast down hill, watching the RPM's, it stops giving me power at 55. I should be gaining momentum downhill, not cutting out. This is all I'm trying to fix.
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:43 PM   #18
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I had to remove the speed limiter of 55 on my latest Bus to go over 55.. if your RPMs are dropping off and going down below redline when you hit 55.. then you have a Computerized speed limiter... thats easy to get rid of..


once i did that then i could run it up to its RPM limiter, which I wont change.. I have a self imposed RPM limit of 2600 and the factory design is 2700.. (supposedly theres a way to hack the computer and alter the factory limit.. but im not goiung to do it on a 145,000 mile motor...

-Christopher
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:45 PM   #19
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I had to remove the speed limiter of 55 on my latest Bus to go over 55.. if your RPMs are dropping off and going down below redline when you hit 55.. then you have a Computerized speed limiter... thats easy to get rid of..


once i did that then i could run it up to its RPM limiter, which I wont change.. I have a self imposed RPM limit of 2600 and the factory design is 2700.. (supposedly theres a way to hack the computer and alter the factory limit.. but im not goiung to do it on a 145,000 mile motor...

-Christopher
Chris,


Short of taking it to an International dealer, can I do this myself with the right software?
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Old 10-19-2016, 04:02 PM   #20
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the software to do it is servicemaxx J1708 and international gives it away free... HOWEVER the hardware device isnt cheap... I bought the NEXIQ USB LINK 2 device.. there may be another device which is compatible with servicemaxx.. someone mentioned a TVIT device, however I couldnt find where to buy one..

we need a skoolie meetup where i can bring my device and everyone with the T444E or DT-466E could reprogram their computers...

my Bus goes into the paint shop here soon, at that point i wont need the device for awhile.. Need to find a way to safely ship it around.. it seems pretty durable..

-Christopher
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