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Old 12-04-2018, 03:16 PM   #1
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Question Limp mode...not even that. Idle only.

1998 AmTrans IH3800 T444E throwing a code that ain't on the ETS Diagnostic sheet:

SID0230 Idle Validation Switch. FMI 11 Root Cause Unknown.

Symptoms: Fires off normally. Dash trouble light and no RPM's over idle only when accelerator pedal is depressed...............just sits there and runs.

Q: WHERE is the IVS? Is it a part of what appears to be the APS plug on the pedal assembly? Or is it inside the engine compartment?

There are several codes associated with IVS. How to drill down onto the specific issue? Many thanks in advance.

Mucho gusto, JMC
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:38 PM   #2
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Looks like it may be part of the throttle pedal assembly.

Idle Validation Switch (IVS)

A little searching found discussions of the same symptoms being resolve by replacing the throttle pedal sending unit.

No personal experience here just regurgitating what I found on other sites.

Good luck.
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:07 PM   #3
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yeah that idle validation switch is a switch that makes the comoputer think your foot is off the pedal... if it thinks the foot is off the pedal but sees TPS read it wont allow the engine to rev up at all.. I can look in my service information for it if you like.. most things related to throttle are often that water dripped inside the bus and onto the accelerator pdeal and destroyed the electronics in it.. I can pull the wiring diagram for the pins on that connector if you need them.
-Christopher
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:07 PM   #4
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Hmmmmm. Yeah, I saw that PNW_Steve but one has title F-series and the other Econoline.......neither of which apply............necessarily. I'm punching above my weight class here, so it's all a bit Greek. Thanks for the link
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:11 PM   #5
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Thx for the reply cadillackid. The sensor on the pedal assembly is plug-and-play......easy enough to just switch out, but it seems that it has only been referred to in my research as the Accelerator Position Sensor vs the IVS. If they're one-in-the-same, then: slam dunk. But the code is referencing IVS. Is it a separate switch? Thx in advance. JMC
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:20 PM   #6
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for those i would just get a used pedal assembly thats known good and swap it in. I didnt know the switch and the pedal position sensor were replaceable separately.. on my bus there is one connector thaty plugs in... its worth unplugging that and making sure the contacts are clean on it both sides.. and also make sure nothing is physically binding the pedal at all.. piece of dirt, debris, etc.. (debris shouldnt affect it.. but ive seen wierder things)


-Christopher
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:30 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bandidoyanqui View Post
Hmmmmm. Yeah, I saw that PNW_Steve but one has title F-series and the other Econoline.......neither of which apply............necessarily. I'm punching above my weight class here, so it's all a bit Greek. Thanks for the link
You'll get through this. Steve and Chris are two insanely smart folks.
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:49 PM   #8
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Here is the diagram for that connector on the pedal.. of course all 5 wires are violet colored lolol..

But the sensor and the Ivs are in the same connector

IMG_1999.jpg

IMG_2001.jpg

Christopher
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:37 PM   #9
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Yep, what they said. The IVS is merely a safety, in case something goes bad on the TPS side and goes to full throttle. It ensures you are actually pushing the pedal.

There are no replaceable parts. You have buy an entire pedal assembly.

They being said, it is unlikely the pedal is the problem. I work on medium and heavy trucks for a living. In the past 10+ years, I think I have had to replace two defective pedals. It is usually chafed wiring on the engine side of the firewall. And yup, all the fuel system wires are purple. As the schematics show, they do have the numbers stamped in them.

If you do elect to replace the pedal, make sure you get the correct one. I'm not sure of the year they changed. Newer ones stopped using the IVS and use a redundant TPS coils. They look identical and the wire connector is the same, but they are not interchangeable.

HTH
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Old 12-05-2018, 08:00 AM   #10
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if you have or can get a multi-meter.. you can unplug the connector from the pedal.. and then put the meter in Ohms / continuity mode.



the bus can stay turned off..


on the pedal unit itself place one lead of the meter on terminal D. and the other on terminal F.. you'll likely have an empty terminal E.. its not used on the 444E.


when you press the pedal down you should see your meter show an open circuit.. (same as when you first turn it onto Ohms and dont have it connected to anything).


when you let off the pedal you should see your meter go very close to zero ohms or short circuit indication..



if this is the behaviour you get then your pedal assembly idle switch is good.. and time to check the wire harness like bigmackone suggests..



if the meter always shows open or short when you press and release the pedal then the switch is bad..



remember you are testing on the pedal assembly itself and not the wiring harness..


-Christopher
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:31 PM   #11
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Thanks to you all...........I'll start with the multimeter next days off and work it from there. Once that is licked and the damn thing actually rolls again, then there's only nine more codes to chase down..........................This overpowering affinity for JUNK is a sickness, it would seem. JMC
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:37 PM   #12
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what other codes are there? sometimes they are inter-related.. depoending on what they are may indicate power / fuse / or wiring harness issues as mentioned..



also a good idea to clear the codes in the computer.. disconnect your batteries for 5 minutes and then re-connect. or pull out both ECM fusses... ECM IGN and ECM bat. from the dashboard fuse panel..



-Christopher
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:18 PM   #13
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IVS code was the only one to pop up AFTER clearing codes, but prior to that was:

SID0254
SID0164 Abnormal rate of charge
SID0100
SID0084 Timing Actuator Cylinder 2
SID0034 Exhaust backpressure sensor (x2)
SID0247 Brake booster switch
SID0091 Cylinder 2 knock sensor (x2)

I reckon that once I get rolling, I can keep my code scanner on LIVE DATA and then see what pops up and under what conditions. Would you agree with this logic? JMC
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Old 12-05-2018, 06:12 PM   #14
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Navistar has different ideas for codes

Code 254. Self test failure on ECM.. possibly battery voltage issue

Code 164 is ICP voltage low or high.. the Sid is only part of the code.. what are the FMI portions? Or use the dash diag switch and get flash codes which I can run through the book.. a lot of it looks like the battery was run low or batteries were changed and wasn’t cleared after.. low batteries set all kinds from codes Inc these engines and they get stored but go inactive .. usually when i see memory issue codes it’s related to low batteries and a no start where you try and crank..it also could be wiring issues.. also I don’t think our 444s have knock sensors.. that was a 6.0 thing.. as long as those codes don’t come back I wouldn’t worry about them..
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:23 PM   #15
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Finally on Days off.

Cadillackid: Metered/Checked continuity per your instructions on the APS/IVS switch............there was none. I think the sumbitch is bad. Used alligator clips to try to eliminate any question of connection.

Bigmackone: Curious about your comment about the pedal assembly having no servicable parts. It seems that the bulk of the pedal on mine is just a platform to hold an internal spring with a connection to this same switch via a plastic male/female flat-headed slot, mated together with two small Torx screws. The spring part is cast and the switch is plastic. Is this not your experience?

The part in question is (as presented on two separate lines on the switch):

Williams Controls 400468
005519

I've looked it up and online it is cheapest at around $35. However, when I call an IH dealer, the OEM part is over $200. So, the next question for the forum is:

How to match existing part to correct new part using the part numbers and how to know I'm getting the best value? i.e. Go cheap or go OEM?

Man, I'm excited to get this bugger rolling again. As always: Thank You, Gents.

Jared
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:35 PM   #16
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The APS/IVS switch........my fingers for scale.
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:02 PM   #17
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heres the way alot of this worked.. IH went out to some supplier.. williams controls in this case.. and said "we are going to use your widget X in our vehicles.. give us a price and send us 20,000 of them".. so they do.. and IH builds their pedal assemblies and puts them in alot of trucks. if this was a stock item by williams, they will continue to sell it on their own to anyone who wants it.. if IH had them build it special with an exclusive for X number of years then only IH will have the same thing.. usually those type of aggreements expire at some point.. and if IH or williams hads a zillion of these things sitting on a shelf they get sold to a surplus dealer who sells them for cheap to get rid of them...



sometimes IH contracts multiple suppliers to build parts to make the volume.. so there may be versions by willaims and versions by ???



in my opinion if you found a $35 part number cross for that part, id get it and try it.. it may even be made by williams..


perfect example of surplus.. is that IH used to sell remanufactured MT-643 and AT-545 transmissions through their dealer network..

the List price (with no labor) of a remanufactured MT-643 through IH was $6500.. they stopped this program as the last 545 / 643 was installed in a vehicle in 03. so the 15 year parts-stock period was over.. they sold them all to LKQ suppliers.. (a surplus parts and scrapper).. LKQ sold them for $650....


-Christopher
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Old 12-12-2018, 06:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
Navistar has different ideas for codes

Code 254. Self test failure on ECM.. possibly battery voltage issue

Code 164 is ICP voltage low or high.. the Sid is only part of the code.. what are the FMI portions? Or use the dash diag switch and get flash codes which I can run through the book.. a lot of it looks like the battery was run low or batteries were changed and wasn’t cleared after.. low batteries set all kinds from codes Inc these engines and they get stored but go inactive .. usually when i see memory issue codes it’s related to low batteries and a no start where you try and crank..it also could be wiring issues.. also I don’t think our 444s have knock sensors.. that was a 6.0 thing.. as long as those codes don’t come back I wouldn’t worry about them..
I got similar codes when the separate power wires to the ECU had corroded terminals and fuse connectors on my IH 4700 truck. I do not know whether the OP's bus has separate wiring from the battery to the ECU but if there is a problem with these wires you will not notice when cranking (starter will get full voltage through the big cables but ECU not.)
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