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Old 09-12-2017, 10:55 AM   #1
Skoolie
 
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Looking at my first bus! What can you tell me about 1991 International?

The guy says it has a straight 6 diesel engine and an automatic transmission with no air brakes. 12-window full-size bus, high height (claims his 6'6" son can stand up straight inside it).

What are the likely engine and transmission combinations in a bus like this? (Or, better yet, how can I figure out which engine and transmission it has, when I go to look at it?)
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:56 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
The guy says it has a straight 6 diesel engine and an automatic transmission with no air brakes. 12-window full-size bus, high height (claims his 6'6" son can stand up straight inside it).

What are the likely engine and transmission combinations in a bus like this? (Or, better yet, how can I figure out which engine and transmission it has, when I go to look at it?)
More than likely it's a dt360 or a DT466 in 91 everything was mechanical so that is a big plus there's a lot of mechanical engine fans on this site, I personally have a 1992 international Thomas 77pass with a dt360 it uses no oil it's very dependable it's got 200k + miles on it and it doesn't use any oil.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:36 PM   #3
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one of my busses is a 1991 International carpenter (from ohio).. it has a DT-360 and is a trooper.. its NOT FAST but that engine chugs right along.. ive driven it all over the place.
-Christopher
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:15 PM   #4
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Hey Christopher I just assumed it was an international don't you think... An inline 6 I don't think Ford or Chevy put anything like that in their buses right?
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:28 PM   #5
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Year: 2004
Chassis: International CE 300
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 71 passenger / 12 window
I looked at the bus. The tag on the engine said "DTA-360 family", so DT360?

131,xxx miles, couldn't figure out the transmission. Shifter said "R N D 3 2 1", but there was probably a "P" at the top that I just didn't see. Hydraulic brakes. Had some surface rust, saw some small rust-through holes on the body, the largest being on the main side door. Underbody looked like it had only minimal rust - only rust I saw there was on the leaf springs and it didn't look like more than surface rust.

One thing struck me as odd - there was no driver's door. How do you get into a bus like that - do you always have to get in through the emergency exit or leave the main side door unlocked?

Unfortunately, it was not the "high height" bus... this must've been standard height. If his 6'6" son can stand up straight in it, I'm betting that the guy ain't 6'6"... because I, at 6'2", touched the ceiling with my head while standing flat-footed.

Tires looked decent but he said that the tires currently on it were one size too big, and as a result, sometimes during turns the tire would scrape a fiberglass panel in the wheel well. A set of proper-size tires come with the bus but they look fairly old and I can't guarantee that they'd have any use left.

He claims it runs and drives, he's had it 8 years, can't drive it anymore because he had an operation that put two metal plates in his foot, and the position he has to use to drive the bus puts painful pressure on his foot as a result. I didn't hear it start because he had the batteries out, but he said he'd get batteries for it so it would run.

It's only minimally converted; I'd need to install seat belts on the seats I'd want to keep because there weren't any in those years. He's asking $1950... a tempting deal... but I'm inclined to pass because of the low ceiling height. Blast it all.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:56 PM   #6
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Well that might not be such a bad thing if you are looking for a driver's door and "P"...... Sorry that's just my sense of humor
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:00 PM   #7
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He claims it runs and drives, .... I didn't hear it start because he had the batteries out, but he said he'd get batteries for it so it would run.






.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:34 PM   #8
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Hey Christopher I just assumed it was an international don't you think... An inline 6 I don't think Ford or Chevy put anything like that in their buses right?
Ford buses may have a Cummins and chevy may have a Cat. Not sure when they started using the 3116.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:48 PM   #9
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Just some things to consider, If he has had it for eight years and when you went to look at it the batteries were dead it may have sat unused for a long time which isn't good on any vehicle. If the body is rusted through in multiple places you will likely find more. Tires are very expensive for a bus. A good set of tires increases a buses value considerably. New tires mounted will cost over 1,000.

If the work that is complete was done well it may be worth the asking price. If you will have to redo most of it I would keep looking. Just my Opinion.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:12 PM   #10
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No "Park" position? Full size? Are you _sure_ they were wet brakes, or did you take this guy's word for it? Was there a large yellow pullout button on the dash somewhere?

I'm sure this will be received as shocking news, but there are people out there who will lie about stuff in order to sell vehicles.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:18 PM   #11
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On my 92 with hydraulic brakes my e-brake is on the drive shaft mechanical Style
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:26 PM   #12
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some of them had air-parking brakes with hydraulic brakes...so you still have the yellow knob
-Christopher
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:47 PM   #13
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some of them had air-parking brakes with hydraulic brakes...so you still have the yellow knob
-Christopher
Really? Cans on the brakes that yanked on some lever? That's strange.

That vintage, I'm assuming drums, at least on the rear. Huge brakes with a huge booster cylinder? A couple gallons of DOT-4 to bleed them, I guess.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:50 PM   #14
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Really? Cans on the brakes that yanked on some lever? That's strange.

That vintage, I'm assuming drums, at least on the rear. Huge brakes with a huge booster cylinder? A couple gallons of DOT-4 to bleed them, I guess.

ECCB's shorty bus has hydraulic discs with air parkjing brake.. yeah its a small can on the bracket that moves the lever instead of a cable.. still a drum on the back of the transmission.
-Christopher
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:54 PM   #15
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Just some things to consider, If he has had it for eight years and when you went to look at it the batteries were dead it may have sat unused for a long time which isn't good on any vehicle.
There were no batteries in it. He said he had to park it because he became physically incapable of driving it. He said the last time it ran and drove was this past spring, so a few months ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
If the body is rusted through in multiple places you will likely find more. Tires are very expensive for a bus. A good set of tires increases a buses value considerably. New tires mounted will cost over 1,000.
I do hope you don't mean "each".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
If the work that is complete was done well it may be worth the asking price. If you will have to redo most of it I would keep looking. Just my Opinion.
My big thing is that neither I nor my wife could stand up straight in it. That means also that installing roof A/C would make the situation worse. I doubt that I could install a window A/C unit that would be safe enough for constant transit.

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No "Park" position?
I didn't see a "P" on the gearshift index. From top to bottom, I saw "RND321". The shifter was in "D" when I looked at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-fox View Post
Full size? Are you _sure_ they were wet brakes, or did you take this guy's word for it? Was there a large yellow pullout button on the dash somewhere?
I took the guy's word for it, because it really didn't matter. I couldn't stand up straight inside the bus. Something would have to be a REALLY great deal for me to buy it without being able to stand up straight inside it. He said that the hydraulic brakes were what made him want to buy this bus. If this "large yellow pullout button" is for air brakes, where is it usually located?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-fox View Post
I'm sure this will be received as shocking news, but there are people out there who will lie about stuff in order to sell vehicles.
Yeah, but usually I can see through that. I've bought enough vehicles to know. When it comes to a bus, however, this would be my first rodeo, hence why I'm asking questions of those who know more than I do.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:34 PM   #16
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Neutral is the preferred shift when applying the parking brake.

Yes, Virginia, new 22.5 tires will set you back almost $1K EACH. By law, you cannot have recaps on the front axle.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:35 PM   #17
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I paid less than 300 a piece for my NEW uniroyals on my DEV BUS
-Christopher
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:54 PM   #18
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I paid less than 300 a piece for my NEW uniroyals on my DEV BUS
-Christopher
I bought brand new Steer tires for under $300 they're out there you just got to find them
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:39 AM   #19
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Full size bus, asking $1950 ... DT360 engine ... rust holes in side panels ... questionable tires ... no batteries and didn't hear it run/see it drive (I think you said seller will install new batteries) ... limited ceiling height

Well, first things first. Rust is your enemy. Don't just look at the frame. Look up at the floor beams and panels, the wheel-wells (from below), around the back door and lower back panels. Common places for rust.

If the rust is not a deal breaker, move along to the ceiling height. Is a low ceiling a deal breaker, or did you plan on doing a roof raise anyway? There's a *BIG* difference between leaving it stock and doing a roof raise, versus raising a roof 12" or 18" ...

Tires will set you back about $300 each. Plan and bid accordingly.

Next we get to the mechanicals. The DT360 is a good engine, if not terribly powerful in a full size bus in the mountains. The RND321 transmission is very likely an AT545 (not an ideal choice since it lacks overdrive and a lock-up torque converter). Most of these large buses do *NOT* have a park. They use parking brakes. On air-brake equipped buses, the parking brakes are the same assembly as the service brakes. Not many hydraulic-brake buses have air parking brakes. You'll most likely find a driveshaft mounted parking brake and a parking brake lever somewhere near the driver's seat. *Tip* if the parking brake feels a bit weak, it can be adjusted by turning the "tip" (or knob) on the end of the parking brake lever.

Check the rear-axle gear ratio if you plan to do much driving in it. A low ratio (higher numerically) will limit your top speed. It can be changed, but figure somewhere between $1000-1500 (or more) to do this. A good cruising ratio with an AT545 will be 4.44:1 or lower (numerically).

Seat belts are ... meh. If it didn't come with 'em, most places can't (or won't) bother making you retrofit them. This is up to you.

Overall, my opinion would be to pass. The combination of rust and low ceiling height and likely AT545 transmission are the deal killers to me.
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:41 AM   #20
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I almost forgot. Correct, most full size buses do not have a driver's door. They simply push the entry door mostly closed and enter/exit through it, or shut it fully and use the emergency exit.
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