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Old 11-03-2019, 05:29 AM   #21
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Genius battery charger is an awesome device. Hook it up, set it for your battery type and go as ay for a day. Battery will be brought to its best possible state of charge.

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Old 11-03-2019, 05:42 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuvom View Post
We're having a similar problem on our bus now, can I ask why someone recommended using a battery charger but NOT jump-starting? The last two times we (for trips of just 1 min.) jump-started the bus, and tomorrow we're going to try to jump it again for a 30 minute drive to a Lowe's.

What's the difference between a battery charger and jump-starting the bus and driving it for 15-30 mins to recharge? Does the second option damage the bus or batteries somehow?
Jump starting is always a risky business for the the donor vehicle. Any arcs or sparks can damage the electronics. The bus would pretty safe as the key is still off. Once started, the alternator has to run the entire bus as well as charge the batteries. It's not really designed to do that very often. The alternator will do it but at the expense of longevity. The alternator will get hot.

The battery charger is the best option. I use the Genius brand on my trike and truck. No, I am not affiliated with them in any capacity.
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Old 11-03-2019, 07:47 AM   #23
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I own a fleet of INTERTRASHINALS- put new batteries in it and ensure you have the oil topped off- if the high pressure oil pump is t working your injectors won’t fire. But full power in the battery department is a MUST. Weak batteries will kill the starter and you can’t really jumpstart them. So don’t mess with the weak batteries get new ones.
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuvom View Post
We're having a similar problem on our bus now, can I ask why someone recommended using a battery charger but NOT jump-starting? The last two times we (for trips of just 1 min.) jump-started the bus, and tomorrow we're going to try to jump it again for a 30 minute drive to a Lowe's.

What's the difference between a battery charger and jump-starting the bus and driving it for 15-30 mins to recharge? Does the second option damage the bus or batteries somehow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Bird View Post
A good battery charger will Top your batteries up before you try to start, some engines won't start unless they are cranking fast.

Jumping often fails because the operator attaches the cables and immediately tries to start the bus. Not going to work if your batteries are too low, remember you are not replacing your discharged batteries you are trying to run your starter through them. It could take 20 minutes each to boost your batteries up to sufficient power levels.
Free Bird gave a pretty good summary, but I'd like to add a little more detail.

A small gasoline engine as in a passenger car can often be started immediately with jumper cables because they take relatively little current to turn the starter. Diesel engines in trucks and buses take significantly more current to turn the starter because the engine size (displacement) is bigger and the compression ratio is higher.

The jumper cables that many people carry are fairly light: 6 or maybe 4 gauge. For the current required to crank a diesel engine when its own batteries are quite dead, a 2 or even 1 gauge jumper set would be needed and probably jumping from two vehicles at the same time. I had to do that once to get the 5.9L Cummins engine started in my pickup on a very cold winter day.

As for charging: a 15-30 minute drive will put a good dent in what we call "bulk charge." It's enough to be able to start again but not enough for good health/lifetime of the battery. That phase might get a lead acid battery only to something like 70% state of charge. Lead batteries are just slow to charge. Bringing one to 100% state of charge simply takes time (hours). A very long drive could do the job but it's usually more convenient and economical to park it and use a charger.
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Old 11-04-2019, 01:04 PM   #25
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Take it from a fleet owner - but new batteries. The computerized u it’s are picky. Jump starting and freshening up the batteries sounds like a good thing. But if your batteries are shyt don’t risk messing up your starter and computer by jumpstarts g and freshening up. Diesel has to spin at a particular rom in order to spin the high pressure oil pump which POWERS THE INJECTORS. If you have lots of extra money to repair stuff then screw around with bad batteries. The internationals I in with 2 900-1000cca batteries.
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:32 AM   #26
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Fuel pump running?

Somewhere in all this I think you said the bus was turning over. I had a problem that I thought was the fuel pump. It turned out to be a bad ground on the fuel pump. This was discovered (of course) after they dropped the tank and replaced the pump.
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:58 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by H.Gilly View Post
My 3800 international 2000 will not start. The gas gauge doesn't fully work so I think it got drained to nothing. I filled it up.
The battery works because the wait to start light comes on and we can use electrical stuff like the headlights etc. When I try to start it after the wait to start button goes off, it just clicks. I looked under the hood and there's no sparks or anything happening, it is turning and trying to start.
Also a warn engine light keeps coming on and I can't figure out what it means on google. I'm sure someone on here has dealt with this so please help if you can. Thanks in advance, I think I have enough information but if I need to clarify anything just ask me
If you need help really bad, I'm 5hrs from Nashville in Johnson City.
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Old 11-05-2019, 09:01 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Dirtdoctor View Post
Take it from a fleet owner - but new batteries. The computerized u it’s are picky. Jump starting and freshening up the batteries sounds like a good thing. But if your batteries are shyt don’t risk messing up your starter and computer by jumpstarts g and freshening up. Diesel has to spin at a particular rom in order to spin the high pressure oil pump which POWERS THE INJECTORS. If you have lots of extra money to repair stuff then screw around with bad batteries. The internationals I in with 2 900-1000cca batteries.



if you read the international books the engines like to have close to 160 RPM before the computer will fire the injectors.. this seems ESPECIALLY true if you have killed the batteries as it appears the computer is more picky.. jumper cables can never get enough power to the system for the starter to spin it anywhere close to 160...
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Old 11-05-2019, 05:48 PM   #29
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To update, I'm gonna buy new batteries within the week and see if that gets things going.
Since my original post, the batteries seem to be absolutely shot. When I turn the key to the wait to start position the power just goes off and on over and over. We didn't know to turn the batteries off when we didn't need to use them, so I think they just got drained. Fingers crossed, and it's not like getting new batteries will hurt anything.

Any recommendations of what brand of battery would be helpful.
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:22 PM   #30
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I get good service from the cheapest Group 31's I can find- they're at Rural King. $79.99 each.
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:37 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by H.Gilly View Post
Any recommendations of what brand of battery would be helpful.

I just get El Cheapo's at my local battery shop, last time they were ~$70 each from a local mom-and-pop shop. I've had equally good luck with those as I do name brand ones from a retail place (which cost more).
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:08 PM   #32
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Alright, so I bought new batteries. Two duralasts at $139 a piece, so they should be good for a while. I got them put in and tried to start the bus and still no luck. It did make a more promising noise, so I think there was something wrong with the previous batteries, I think I drained them too low. I have no way to describe how it sounds, but I took some videos and will link them if you guys could take a look.
They're both under 10 seconds long, and the second video shows how there is black smoke coming from the back exhaust pipe. I don't think I paid attention to whether or not it did this before, but it seems to be a new thing.
Some things I should mention, I have not put anymore coolant into the system since removing the heater and almost filling a five-gallon bucket with coolant. I have rerouted the coolant tubes into each other though. Also relating to the heater, I cut the wires connected to it and wrapped the ends with electrical tape. I cannot for the life of me figure out where I need to disconnect the power. I just can't find the electrical panel in general. Usually, people have them on the driver's side near the stop signs, but mine must be somewhere else and I can't find it.

Overall, I just don't know how to maintain a diesel engine yet, and can't find any great resources that are helping me figure it out. If anyone can help me identify what is wrong by my descriptions and the videos, that would be great. Also if you guys could provide resources for diesel maintenance that would be equally appreciated.

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Old 12-07-2019, 09:39 AM   #33
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Ok check oil level, make sure it’s full, not overfull. Get a can of diesel starter fluid- This stuff can help and if you use too much you can screw up your engine- listen carefully. One quick Psst in the air intake while soSome else it cranking the engine. Then maybe a second quick psst! But no psssst psssssssst psssst! You can cause a really bad ignition issue. Bang! Dries the cylinder walls and can cause scoring, broken glow plugs etc. practice the psst before you put it into the intake. Do not try to run the engine on starter fluid. Ppppsssssssssssssst. REALLY BAD!
Some times diesels that have been sitting need a wee bit of help. Chances are ya might have glow plug issues. Or air in the fuel lines.
All easily fixed.


Cheers
Jack.
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Old 12-07-2019, 11:39 AM   #34
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DO NOT USE STARTING SPRAY. Great way to ruin your engine, I've bought several trucks to scrap that were rendered junk thanks to that stuff I call "idiot spray".
Also can explode when the glow plugs kick on.
Can cause piston ring damage, crack injector tip, crack injector cups, being the typical.

IF someone is telling you to use idiot spray then I'd suggest not listening to them, just more crap lousy advice to drain the fun right out of life.
These aren't 2stroke detriots, they weren't made to be either addicts.
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:02 PM   #35
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Patrick- re read my post- first of all the starter fluid for diesels is not the same as either. Secondly I directed him in the careful application. And warned him. If you blow up an engine it was because someone over applied the product. Pppssssssssssssst Psssssssssssst. It is a tool and everything can be abused. I have run a fleet of trucks and various Diesel engines on equipment for 30 years. I’ve never blown up an engine but when trying to get an engine that’s been sitting actually running a properly applied Psst, or starter fluid works wonders. How long does it take you to say psst? That’s the length of time to spray. Just a millisecond and you spray it into the intake side of the filter. You never run the engine on the stuff. It’s a tool and needs to be carefully applied.

Cheers.
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:14 PM   #36
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" I’ve never blown up an engine" That's more rare than the damage that typically occurs using it.
I've yet to see "diesel starting fluid" the cans just say for gas or diesel and are either ether or acetone flavored. Atleast recommend WD40, it's a little easier on them.
I didn't accuse you of running the engine on ether either friend.

Nothing personal, I just get alot of trucks to salvage (part of what I do for a living) that have been abused by this kinda crap and I can't help but warn people, sometimes it starts with just a little huff of the stuff and before they know it they are spraying loads of it.
I never have to use starting fluid to get a truck running, when it gets to that point I pull out the LP torch and put the heat into the intake. I'm also a mechanic and roadside tech.
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:15 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtdoctor View Post
Patrick- re read my post- first of all the starter fluid for diesels is not the same as either. Secondly I directed him in the careful application. And warned him. If you blow up an engine it was because someone over applied the product. Pppssssssssssssst Psssssssssssst. It is a tool and everything can be abused. I have run a fleet of trucks and various Diesel engines on equipment for 30 years. I’ve never blown up an engine but when trying to get an engine that’s been sitting actually running a properly applied Psst, or starter fluid works wonders. How long does it take you to say psst? That’s the length of time to spray. Just a millisecond and you spray it into the intake side of the filter. You never run the engine on the stuff. It’s a tool and needs to be carefully applied.

Cheers.
Seems Patrick has dealt with a lot of people just doing it incorrectly.
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdillon1960 View Post
Jump starting is always a risky business for the the donor vehicle. Any arcs or sparks can damage the electronics. The bus would pretty safe as the key is still off. Once started, the alternator has to run the entire bus as well as charge the batteries. It's not really designed to do that very often. The alternator will do it but at the expense of longevity. The alternator will get hot.
I usually do not have the convenience of a battery charger so I have to resort to "jumping". Your post about the damage to the donor car made me read into it.

From the discussions I read it seems to be myth that jumping can damage donor cars. It seems like many people believe that alternators were already weak and stressed from dead battery issues or people reversed connections and didn't realize or admit it.

A couple of discussions on it.-
https://advrider.com/f/threads/jump-...1076613/page-3

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...g-a-modern-car
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Old 12-07-2019, 10:05 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickBaptist View Post
DO NOT USE STARTING SPRAY. Great way to ruin your engine, I've bought several trucks to scrap that were rendered junk thanks to that stuff I call "idiot spray".
Also can explode when the glow plugs kick on.
Can cause piston ring damage, crack injector tip, crack injector cups, being the typical.

IF someone is telling you to use idiot spray then I'd suggest not listening to them, just more crap lousy advice to drain the fun right out of life.
These aren't 2stroke detriots, they weren't made to be either addicts.
I am definitely not going to risk screwing up my engine any more than it already is haha. Thank you for the warning, I am definitely not qualified to be trying risky stuff.
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Old 12-08-2019, 06:23 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Gilly View Post
I am definitely not going to risk screwing up my engine any more than it already is haha. Thank you for the warning, I am definitely not qualified to be trying risky stuff.
No problem buddy. Part of my earnings in life are from being a mechanic and it's funny I don't ever need to use spray to get people back on the road.
Any advice others are going to give you, you might want to research that advice before taking it, while typically people here give pretty good advice, that isn't always so and it's easy to tell someone to do this or that when it's not them that has to deal with the aftermath.

Tell them that spray foam *could* pose health hazards and man do most get all uppity and whinny about it. But that is what one gets use to when they don't follow and do what the majority of people do no matter where you go in life. Ps I've yet to ever see a "diesel starting fluid".... All the SFs I've seen always also contain ether or atleast acetone.

Rather than using spray take a intake tube off and use a propane torch to heat up the air going into the engine (make sure not to melt or set anything on fire doing this), works like a champ on trucks in the cold especially, they need heat to get going, or an electric heat gun will do too.

Remind me what engine is in your bus?
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