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Old 12-24-2016, 11:24 AM   #21
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Year: 2000
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Engine: TE 444
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I will have to look at mine, but it might be a pressurized reservoir and not an overflow tank, my 96 cadillac is like that, although it does not even have a cap on the radiator, just the tank
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Old 01-09-2017, 04:59 PM   #22
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 4,549
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
so las this saga continues... I got back from florida after a freezing drive in the DEV and decided to take the RedByrd out.. it had sat since christmas.. I took it out drove it to my office, the mall, a couple coffee shops.. all in the 12 degree weather.. (about 120 miles)then I parked it over night at the house.. and after 2 days (yesterday) got it out again.. drove to Home depot and then to walmart.. in the 3 minute drive to walmart.. i saw my amp gauge go down, heard the belt slip a little.. and yes coolant EVERYWHERE from the overflow cap...

so while it was occuring I had a chance ot try and chase it down... no steam from the exhaust.. the engione definitely wasnt hot.. hello it was 18 out and had only run 3 minutes after sitting for 45...

then I noticed that the Bendix air compressor was never shutting off.. It also was vibrating pretty decent. yet the governor wasnt shutting it down..

in the previous cold spell my air gauge has been presumably destroyed by freezing water in the air lines as it reads 150 psi even when the tanks are empty.. (this bus has no air brakes.. just air for the seat and the rear suspension)....

as i sat there the compressor rand and ran.. the seat definitely pumped up in 1/2 a second after pressing the valve button.. so I surmise my tank was probably pressurized way above normal but not enough to blow the pop-off.. or maybe it was frozen too...

I added coolant and limped it the 5 mile drive home.. and then shut it off.. I opened the coolant lid.. again it was not hot.. the tmep gauge stayed below 180 the whole time.. my heaters were warm so I was circulating...

of course i released a lot of pressure when I opened the lid.. I then closed that lid up and went in the house..

today it went up to 33 degrees.. before I started the bus I opened the coolant lid and wow lots of air pressure came out.. the hoses were hard a a rock even though the bus was cold..

of course my air tank was empty.. the drain valve yielded only a small pressure and a little watery oil... a drop or 2..

started the bus.. compressor ran for about 2 minutes and then kicked off like it normally does...

guess what no coolant issues.. after releasingthe initial pressure before i started it the hoses didnt get hard again and I didnt blow any coolant out...

I surmise that perhapos my bendix compressor has a slight crack in its head allowing air to get in the coolant only when it is over-pressurizing itself due to the lines likely being frozen in the way cold weather..

this was a houston bus so I doubt it ever saw 3 degrees outside for extended periods..

anyone ever heard of this? when I talked to the guy at bendix he said its entirely possible.. and to test I could remove the coolant lines from the head, connect them together, and then connect the coolant ports on the head to a pressure gauge and then run it..

he also said I should install an air dryer which has a heater and takes out moisture before it hits the tank rather than the auto expell valve which freezes and tricks the governor into thinking the system needs air...

interesting things I learn from these busses..

-Christopher
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:17 PM   #23
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Join Date: May 2009
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Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
more info on this..

temperature is above freezing now.. 46..
today I connected a pressure gaiuge to the tank since the dash gauge is destroyed...

this bus *IS* getting an air dryer!!

so anyway started it up.. the compressor pumps up.. at 120 I hear the auto drain valve kick out. which is controlled by the governor...

but my pressure keeps on going up.. in fact it went over 150... up to 200.. up to 210.. by this time the engine RPM is fluctuating slightly and the compressor is vibrating.. 220.. ...it wasnt able to do much above 220.. oh but wait now my radiator hoses were getting hard as a rock.... and the bus is still cold... yeoow..

shut it down and opened the coolantr cap.. guess what.. bubbles from the hose going back to the air compressor...

appears my culprit is the governor or the unloader.. and why the popoff didnt blow I dont know...

and the compressor head gasket must be seeping at the ultra high pressures..

cold weather has wreaked havok on this thing..

let that be a sign to anyone buying a bus down south that they make sure it is winter capable if you are going to drive it in winter..

so I'll put a governor on and see at first if I can get the compressor to stop pumping when its supposed to...

and it may be the reason for the over pumpinfg is the head is cracked and allowing the unloaders to leak.. not sure on that part yet.. i'll know more once I get into it deeper..

and get this doggone thing to florida ASAP where I can install a dryer and re-pipe the lines correctly for winter usage.

-Christopher
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:52 PM   #24
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: on the land of tejas; state of mind
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Year: 95
Coachwork: Amtran ss-33
Chassis: Int 3800
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ice does crazy things to cast iron. water in compressor head or unloader/ governor a likely problem. the top small right hand radiator hose that goes to the reservoir is sectioned off by a baffle in front of the radiator hole with a 3/8 hole at the top near the cap opening, so its likely that if you do have bubbles at the top of the radiator you wont see them.(rising in the sectioned off area and popping.) the 95 amtran int 7.3 cap is 10 psi on my private house coach. p.s. pull the black plastic cap behind the fuel filter on the silver plastic line to clean the mechanical pump prefilter screen. mine had a ton of junk attached to it and the plastic housing.did its job well, as the paper element filter was black(biobugs) but clean. blow air into the silver line to verify its open to flow. human pressure is easy enough.
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:07 AM   #25
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
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Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
they have my air system piped in totally wierd.. the little coolant line going to the top of the bottle goes back to a Y. ion which one part of the Y goes to the compressor head, the second part goes to the small port at the top of the radiator itself, and the 3rd part to that small hose on the top of the bottle..

the air system itself.. has the dash gauge piped in directly off the back of the governor.. via a T. so of course lots of water is going to go toward the dash gauge...

the other part of that T goes to the tank.. presumably the pressure sense for the tank.

and then another line from the governor goes down to the STEMCO auto drain valve.. that line triggers the auto drain cycle when the governor cuts OFF or ON.. it simply senses pressure change in that line.

from the tank one air line goes through a protection valve to my rear air suspension and another line goes through another protection valve to my air seat.

there is NO air brakes on this bus..

it is a single tank.. so im guessing because nothing is mission / safety critical that I dont need a separate wet tank?

anyway what im proposing is to completely re-vamp this whole thing...

1. replace the compressor.. its not only pumping a bit of air into the coolant, I notice theres more oil than what I think there should be ending up expelled from the auto expel valve.

2. I ordered a Wabco compact air dryer to install so that I can actually dry the air. it is also heated.

3. my STEMCO auto drain valve is flaky so I ordered a new one of those that is Heated and will install that.

4. re-pipe the Dash gauge to measure the pressure from the top of the TANK instead of right off the governor so it will get dry air to it and not wet air.

5. Replace the dash gauge because it got destroyed from being frozen.


the other option I have is installing a small electric air compressor and eliminating the Bendix TU-Flo-550 altogether since it is just the air ride and the seat..

doing that would simplify the system under the hood quite a bit.. If I went electric I would likely need an air solenoid to trigger the air dryer since thered be no governor to trigger it..

or I could wrap the whole air system, tank and lines in heated blanket / tape for when im in cold weather and not have a dryer.. but id rather have a dryer..

anyones thoughts on whether to keep a belt driven compressor vs going to electric for my application?

-Christopher
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:10 AM   #26
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
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Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by tincaneasybakeoven View Post
ice does crazy things to cast iron. water in compressor head or unloader/ governor a likely problem. the top small right hand radiator hose that goes to the reservoir is sectioned off by a baffle in front of the radiator hole with a 3/8 hole at the top near the cap opening, so its likely that if you do have bubbles at the top of the radiator you wont see them.(rising in the sectioned off area and popping.) the 95 amtran int 7.3 cap is 10 psi on my private house coach. p.s. pull the black plastic cap behind the fuel filter on the silver plastic line to clean the mechanical pump prefilter screen. mine had a ton of junk attached to it and the plastic housing.did its job well, as the paper element filter was black(biobugs) but clean. blow air into the silver line to verify its open to flow. human pressure is easy enough.

I definitely had that fuel pre-screen off and it was a bit messy.. I also updated my Fuel pressure regulator to the later model per a TSB that IHC put out.. the factory FPR on mid 99 and previous (my chassis is 99 my bus is 00 year) had a 47 PSI FPR where as the later model calls for a 72 PSI FPR.. it quiets the low idle knock dowmn and some and seems to make the throttle response a bit better...

you should be able to tell which FPR you have because the nut is Notched on the high pressure unit vs smooth on the low pressure one.. of course testing with a gauge is the best way.
-Christopher
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:34 PM   #27
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Year: 1999
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Chassis: IH 3800
Engine: Navistar DT466E
Rated Cap: 72 passenger
CC:I think I'd be inclined to go electric! Put a demand switch on a little air tank and you'll never need to touch anything or do anything different. It'll just work when its needed. One less engine part to go wrong.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:11 PM   #28
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Year: 1998
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Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar 7.6L
There is virtually nothing different in a southern school bus versus an up north school bus.
Other than creature comforts and safety while driving options dictated by the customer.
The factory is not going to expend the effort in putting the two together differently.
Not mechanically wise.
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:40 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleO7 View Post
There is virtually nothing different in a southern school bus versus an up north school bus..
well, except that Uncle Virgil is driving, (he's still in the fifth grade), there is a Confederate flag hanging across the emergency exit, and he's got a load of hooch under the rear seats that he's got to deliver to the Sheriff's cousin before he takes the bus back to the barn... but other than that we're pretty much just like them Yankees.

KIDDING!!!!

(Sorry. Thread drift. My bad...)

Bus-related: currently camped-out in a hotel in Las Cruces, NM for the night enroute to SkooliePalooza!!!!
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:51 PM   #30
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Montana/Texas
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Year: 1998
Coachwork: Crown by Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
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On our way too!

[/QUOTE]Bus-related: currently camped-out in a hotel in Las Cruces, NM for the night enroute to SkooliePalooza!!!! [/QUOTE]

We will be spending the night in Las Cruces tomorrow on our way to Skooliepalooza! We're right behind you! (Leaving Kerrville, TX in the morning) looking forward to meeting you and sharing burner stories!

John & Erica
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