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02-15-2019, 04:18 AM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Still in travel... now Europe
Posts: 38
Year: 2003
Chassis: Bluebird International
Engine: T444E
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T444E Problem with Starting
Hi,
For over a week, a mechanic in Malaga has been trying to find a solution to our problem with the T444E engine from 2002 in our Skoolie. The symptoms are quite strange. When we come to a place and do not start the engine in the evening, it has a lot of problems running. It starts for a moment and goes out. Then the starting tests take a little longer and the engine starts after about 10 seconds. Later in the day there are no problems with starting the engine. No matter if it's cold or it's still hot.
However, if we start the engine in the evening, there is no problem with starting it the next morning. The mechanic added an additional directional valve both on the inlet to the fuel filter and on the return from it. It seemed to help. However, after driving around 100km, the problem came back and we had problems starting the engine this morning. Maybe you have an idea where else to look for a solution to the problem? We would like to suggest something to our mechanic, because I think the ideas are slowly coming to an end, and we would like to finally go to Portugal.
Best regards FabLabNomads.
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02-16-2019, 09:11 PM
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#2
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Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 152
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Sounds like I fuel problem, either in the fuel system it self or a sensor sending bogus info to the ECU. Sorry it’s so general... I understand the mechanical concepts. But I’m pretty new at working on the t444e.
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02-17-2019, 06:47 PM
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#3
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 36
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To me it sounds like the fuel that is supposed to be trapped in the fuel galley in the cylinder head is bleeding off over night. I've had this exact problem on a few CAT engines and it was the check valve where the fuel return line connects to the cylinder head. Sometimes the valve can be cleaned. Sometimes it has to be replaced. Tell me this. Do you prefill your fuel filters? That causes extra wear on your injectors because their first gulp of fuel after the filter change is unfiltered. Often times. Its the tiny pieces of metal from the injectors that sticks that valve open.
I've not worked on your exact engine but I've been a diesel mechanic for nearly 30 years.
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02-22-2019, 02:06 AM
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#4
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Still in travel... now Europe
Posts: 38
Year: 2003
Chassis: Bluebird International
Engine: T444E
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Thank you for your response. We have recently got our bus and I will tell you honestly that I have not changed the fuel filter in it yet. It is very hard to buy it in Spain and we are waiting for a shipment from Amazon. I will check the valve you are writing about when you change the filter.
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03-03-2019, 12:40 AM
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#5
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Still in travel... now Europe
Posts: 38
Year: 2003
Chassis: Bluebird International
Engine: T444E
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Hello again, we checked the fuel system together with the mechanic and most likely, there is no problem here. Is there any possibility of reading the error codes in a different way than by having a ScangaugeD device? In European cars it was often possible to achieve this by attaching a small lamp to the service connector and reading the error codes using the number of flashes?
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03-03-2019, 08:43 AM
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#6
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,782
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Reading codes on IH electronic engines | BinderPlanet
This thread discusses reading the error codes using the diagnostic button. This is how I do it, too. Get a device ready to record video of the flashing light. Otherwise it's hard to keep up with the flashing light.
The list on that page is incomplete, though. Here's a PDF of flash codes for the T444e: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4t7l74lxd5...Index.pdf?dl=0
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03-03-2019, 10:58 AM
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#7
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,707
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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the flash codes differed slightly from the old 94-96 3 box T-444E and the later models using the DLC (what yours is).. ive noticed some of the websites have the older codes listed.. I didnt click Jatzy's link to the dropbox but if its 97+ then it will be the correct codes for you..
-Christopher
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03-03-2019, 01:27 PM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,782
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Oh, it's likely that the codes I posted are for the 3-box... How different are they?
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03-03-2019, 01:59 PM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,707
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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I noticed some of the higher number codes dealing with the computer itself are different, ie 500 and 600 series. The lower ones seem to match pretty well. So if it something like HPOP or ICP it should match.. this issue almost sounds like either fuel bleed down from the rails or possibly the HPOP drains down.. start and run then die sounds to me like the fuel line leading up to the filter drains down so it runs nice for a few seconds then dies when the fuel filter goes dry before it’s sucked new fuel up from the tank. The lift pump on these is mechanical and not electric, so it’s on the negative side of the fuel system.. there’s no primer pump that I know of on these.
Christopher
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03-03-2019, 02:44 PM
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#10
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Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amarillo Tx
Posts: 142
Year: 1999
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: T444EIEIO
Rated Cap: 8 window?
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My 444E fuel dilema
I can't diagnose your bus, I'm not a mechanic.
Here's my 1999 T444E story. I drove my bus last March from San Antonio to Amarillo; from the auction to home. It never started again after that initial drive. Paid a mobile mechanic to take a look. He was stumped. Had it towed to the mechanics garage and they were convinced I needed a new motor. I was pissed - the bus ran fine all for 500 miles then it doesn't start. I pleaded with the garage and they found a short in the wiring to the fuel pump.
They called me gleefully announcing how nice the bus was running and that I should call off my search for a new motor. The bus needed no further work, no parts, just oil change and filters. WOW.
Short in the wiring. Go figure.
Good Luck friend.
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03-03-2019, 03:26 PM
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#11
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpincher
I can't diagnose your bus, I'm not a mechanic.
Here's my 1999 T444E story. I drove my bus last March from San Antonio to Amarillo; from the auction to home. It never started again after that initial drive. Paid a mobile mechanic to take a look. He was stumped. Had it towed to the mechanics garage and they were convinced I needed a new motor. I was pissed - the bus ran fine all for 500 miles then it doesn't start. I pleaded with the garage and they found a short in the wiring to the fuel pump.
They called me gleefully announcing how nice the bus was running and that I should call off my search for a new motor. The bus needed no further work, no parts, just oil change and filters. WOW.
Short in the wiring. Go figure.
Good Luck friend.
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Wow, competency at it's best, tried to sell you a $5k motor, but got lucky and fixed it with a $.05 splice.
You are looking for another garbage, right?
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03-03-2019, 07:56 PM
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#12
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Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Amarillo Tx
Posts: 142
Year: 1999
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: T444EIEIO
Rated Cap: 8 window?
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Blink codes
The shop is a highly recommended International Repair Center. They are very busy, with a waiting list. I presume the B team took a first glance at the bus and reported it was a dead duck. When I insisted it was operational they called in the highly skilled A team who found the short. I dunno??
It runs and I'm happy.
Here's some of the blink codes I was getting. 312,335,113,241,626. I got other codes at other times. I was about to change the HPOP and the fuel pump on my own. Then I decided I had no real idea if these repairs would actually fix the problem. So I had it towed.
If I remember correctly, I found a couple decent looking rebuilt motors with warranties for $2800.00 + shipping. Not sure what the cost to install the motor would be. The shop was ready to do it. haha To help me out....
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03-05-2019, 08:28 AM
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#13
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Still in travel... now Europe
Posts: 38
Year: 2003
Chassis: Bluebird International
Engine: T444E
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Thanks for help! We read codes in our computer. We have:
111, 155, 124, 211
We checked on the list and they are:
111 - no codes detected (it is my favorite) ;)
155 - intake air signal to High
124 - iniection pressure signal Low
211 - engine oil pressure signal Low
What now?
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03-05-2019, 08:29 AM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,782
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
Wow, competency at it's best, tried to sell you a $5k motor, but got lucky and fixed it with a $.05 splice.
You are looking for another garbage, right?
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That's an appropriate typo right there! Garbage garage.
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03-18-2019, 07:17 AM
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#15
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Campbell, Tx
Posts: 204
Year: 2004
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: IC
Engine: T444e, 7.3
Rated Cap: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaFuzz
Thanks for help! We read codes in our computer. We have:
111, 155, 124, 211
We checked on the list and they are:
111 - no codes detected (it is my favorite) ;)
155 - intake air signal to High
124 - iniection pressure signal Low
211 - engine oil pressure signal Low
What now?
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It sounds like the ICP sensor is either bad or not getting enough voltage. I would hunt down the wire leading to it and make sure it does not have any breaks or isn't rubbing on some sort of metal to to determine if it is shorting out on something.
It also appears another person had this same issue on the schoolbusfleet.com forum:
https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum...?TOPIC_ID=8934
The solution was the round connector going through the firewall. Check this out and see if there is any corrosion or anything causing a poor connection. Hope this helps.
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01-16-2020, 01:17 PM
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#16
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Still in travel... now Europe
Posts: 38
Year: 2003
Chassis: Bluebird International
Engine: T444E
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Hi, we have 6 month staying in nice place in South Portugal. Now is slow time to move. After two weeks of searching of an electric problem, finaly our bus start working. Still needs 10-13 seconds of cranking at the morning I replaced ICP sensor, CMP sensor and tomorow will try to dismount and clean IPR Valve. Today i noticed, that in my High Pressure Oil pump reservoir at the morning i have no oil. I tried to add it manualy, s.a. 300ml and engine started faster, maybe 8s of cranking... maybe my HPOP is dying?
I'm preparing myself for this option... my High Pressure Oil Pump Hoses are very rusty and probably i will need to replace them with HPOP ... mayby some of You have some dimensions of High Pressure Oil Pump Quick Disconnect Tool? It looks quite easy to make...
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