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Old 03-31-2015, 02:30 PM   #61
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Currently in Appalachia.
Posts: 148
Hi everyone! I haven't figured out the quote function on my phone yet, so this is a synopsis of the details from posts 1-56. I was prompted by "what am I missing?" There seems to be a bit of confusion on the bus specs, and solutions to the op's original question (based on the wrong details that kept popping up)

So-in a nutshell-
Based on the build-specs from the VIN (from cowlitz) and info supplied by the op
Onenationundergoats:
-----------
1993 International Navistar, pug-nose, 190k miles
DT360, 170 HP
Allison AT545 transmission
6.14 gears (top speed 50mph-ish)
International N-190; 19,000 lbs rear axle
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Just a synopsis of the rest of the thread (to comment #56 anyway) to save some time. I hope I got this right onenationundergoats.
-----
Goals:
-would like to increase cruising speed to at least 55mph w/out such high rpms
-Intend to convert to WVO eventually.
-a quick build of about a month to be on the road with several animals in 30 days.
-Trip is estimated to be 35,000 miles over 4-5 months
- New etd- add 30 more days for repairs...
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current details:
top cruising speed of 47mph @2800rpms
-top down-hill speed of 52mph
-On the drive home noticed a rough shift between first and second gear (I think).
-the battery gauge indicates that the alternator isn't charging all the time. It'll work some and then drop down. Not sure if it's the gauge itself or the alternator.
-Re: oil analysis record from 2011. The bus was running last fall, but apparently has only been 13,000 miles since this 2011 report that included:
-abnormal levels of copper and lead detected
-severe problem levels of sodium and potassium.
-"severe level of coolant glycol has been detected. check engine for over heating and coolant loss. monitor closely. corrective action should be taken as soon as possible."
-No additional maintenance/repair records have been located.
3/23/15- there was plenty of creamy vapor deposit on the oil dipstick.
-have only had it up to operating temp once, so it could be from that, but it also could indicate a coolant leak.
-We couldn't find out how to check the coolant level, but a finger in the well doesn't touch any liquid.
3/28/15- Did a pressure test for 15 mins and it dropped from 10psi to 8psi, but we can also hear an air hiss leak in the radiator hose.
-drained the oil and did another pressure test after tightening the radiator hose. No loss of pressure.
-the oil looked fine, no sludge, and only about a teaspoon or so of water droplets came out of the very bottom as soon as we started draining it. Saw no coolant at all in there.
-Did another pressure test after it was drained and left the oil pan plug out. Nothing came out and no loss of pressure! Should I take this as "we don't need to fix anything" news?
-----------

disclaimer- I am not an engine rebuilder, but I think I have some grasp of the mechanics here. Correct me if I'm wrong-
1.) a DT360/170hp is not going to be enough power for a fully loaded, 35,000 mile trip, cross-country, in mountainous terrain, at highway speeds.
2.) Long distance highway cruising with the 6.14 will not happen with the current configuration without causing other problems.
2.) to increase cruising speed, and not burn up things at high rpms, the 6.14 gearing needs to be changed regardless, to achieve the op's goals.
3.) since ultimate goal is a WVO conversion, shouldn't new motor suggestions lean towards the older non-computer controlled 6 cylinder diesels with bosch inline injection pumps vs rotory pumps?
4.) ok, I admit I'm a bit sketchy on this one here, but isn't the DT360 one of the engines that runs some coolant lines inside the oil lines/diesel lines or something similar? I seem to remember reading about this somewhere, though have never personally seen it. If I remember correctly, doesn't that change the trouble shooting for the bad oil test somewhat? Might it be related to the elevated copper and lead detected?
5.) I have no clue how to mix and match parts and pieces. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in now.

Good luck to you Onenationundergoats! Maybe you can re-route your trip to the scenic byways and not need to change a thing?
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:33 PM   #62
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Statesville, North Carolina
Posts: 458
Year: 1993
Chassis: Thomas
Engine: International Navistar DT360
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Thanks for the great overview! I was driving around in the mountains in my Honda Element the other day and thinking about the bus' speed. Even in the Honda we weren't able to go over 40 uphill, and with the camper behind that was usually more like 25-30. For most of our driving in the bus we'll be going 25-35 in mountainous or dirt-road types of places. The only time I'm interested in going 55-60 would be on flat open road for those long stretches when we actually have a place that we need to get to. Most of the time we're on "nowhere to be" speed. =]
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:09 PM   #63
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 584
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: I.H.
Engine: DT360
My wife and I have agreed that we won't be in any rush to get anywhere when driving our's. If you see a red and white bus on the road, smile and wave as you pass us, we will be in the right (slow) lane.
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Old 04-03-2015, 11:17 AM   #64
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 627
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SassyLass View Post
1.) a DT360/170hp is not going to be enough power for a fully loaded, 35,000 mile trip, cross-country, in mountainous terrain, at highway speeds.
Define enough. It'll cruise flat land fairly well with that power rating, but I don't know if you could ever have enough power going up a mountain. And then when you crest it doing 70 mph, what's next? Oh that's right, going back down it safely. But if he wants more, it can be accomplished with what he has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SassyLass View Post
2.) Long distance highway cruising with the 6.14 will not happen with the current configuration without causing other problems.
2.) to increase cruising speed, and not burn up things at high rpms, the 6.14 gearing needs to be changed regardless, to achieve the op's goals.
I agree. A lower rear gear and an OD trans would be better then what he has, but we have to consider budgets here. Does he have money to spend on rear gears and a transmission, Or just a OD trans. I'd rather see an od trans with the 6.14 then the at545 with a 4.33 JMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SassyLass View Post
3.) since ultimate goal is a WVO conversion, shouldn't new motor suggestions lean towards the older non-computer controlled 6 cylinder diesels with bosch inline injection pumps vs rotory pumps?
Both will work, with the inline injection pump being preferred. With the dt360 he already has a bosch inline pump, so he should keep the motor he has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SassyLass View Post
4.) ok, I admit I'm a bit sketchy on this one here, but isn't the DT360 one of the engines that runs some coolant lines inside the oil lines/diesel lines or something similar? I seem to remember reading about this somewhere, though have never personally seen it. If I remember correctly, doesn't that change the trouble shooting for the bad oil test somewhat? Might it be related to the elevated copper and lead detected?
It has an oil to water cooler on the side of the block. But if that was leaking, it would've leaked when he did the static pressure test, and it didn't. The copper and lead detected is bearing material. Those would be present because of the antifreeze contamination. Antifreeze will wipe bearings of there oil film which will cause lubrication failure.
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Old 04-03-2015, 01:13 PM   #65
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Currently in Appalachia.
Posts: 148
Booyah- I love a day when I learn something new. Thanks!
And I agree, I should have been more specific about power. As the op has since added, he has decided that chugging around at 45mph will work for him.

Question for you- if the copper and lead is from lube-failure on bearings, wouldn't it be prudent to check the condition, and/or maintenance records of those bearings?
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Old 04-03-2015, 02:38 PM   #66
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 489
Year: 1982
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International S1800
Engine: DT466 Trans: MT643
Rated Cap: 65
No way to check the condition of the bearings without pulling the oil pan, which wouldn't be a bad idea.

Other than oil changes, there's no 'maintenance' that can be done on main bearings.

When they wear out, you either ruin your engine, or catch it in time to replace them and probably rebuild while you're at it.
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Old 04-04-2015, 03:45 PM   #67
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 627
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SassyLass View Post
if the copper and lead is from lube-failure on bearings, wouldn't it be prudent to check the condition, and/or maintenance records of those bearings?
Yes it would if you're serious about engine longevity. Like Charles said, you'd have to drop the pan and take off the caps in order to check them, but be prepared for what you may or may not find. Looking at the levels on the oil analysis would indicate how severe the wear will be.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:32 PM   #68
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Statesville, North Carolina
Posts: 458
Year: 1993
Chassis: Thomas
Engine: International Navistar DT360
Rated Cap: 60
Today my dad and I finished installing my new-to-me set of 4.7 ratio gears. Thanks to Kubla for his old set! We did a test drive on the road by my house and got 56mph at 2500rpm!!! This was just a one mile road or so that is not flat. I think we'll be seeing 60ish on the main highway. Thanks for everyone's input!
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Old 06-03-2015, 11:35 PM   #69
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 584
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: I.H.
Engine: DT360
Great going! Congrats! My turn, my turn! Anyone in Central Fl with something a little better than 5.33 ready to change theirs and donate their old?
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