2005 Bluebird CAT C7

[Booyah45828]

I've experienced more problems on busses with isb/at545 then with a c7/mt643. So long as both engines are in good shape/taken care of. I dont fear the at545 like some, just like I don't fear a cat engine like others. But if I had to pick, I'd go with one that was an 05 with the c7/heavier trans, vs an 02 with a cummins. Now if the c7 has the factory oil fill in it I wouldn't choose it, but the same rule applies to the cummins. Take the one with better maintenance. Just my 2 cents.

Did you get any records or oil reports when the busses were purchased?

[Stewzer55]

I'd agree, I'm not afraid of a CAT. I have an uncle that has a C7 in his Winnebago with no issues; worse comes worse I could ask him about it.

[Bangbus]

A 2005 c7 has a mt643?

[Booyah45828]

Not likely, but with swaps anything is possible.

[cadillackid]

Most all the C7 equipped thomas busses I’ve seen had Allison 2000 or 3000 series transmissions. I did see one once that seemed a one-off and had a stick shift 7 speed.. no idea if it was original or was a swap. The mt643 and at545 went out of production right around the beginning of 2003 which I thought was right Around C7 release. So it’s possible some early run busses might’ve received a 545 or 643 with a c7. Manufacturers often buy up and stock up on popular items when a manufacturer announces EOL so thomas and bluebird may have offered those transmissions for the 03 model year but by 04 no one offered the 545 or 643 any longer . Only replacement reman units were available by that point
Christopher

[Bangbus]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

Most all the C7 equipped thomas busses I’ve seen had Allison 2000 or 3000 series transmissions. I did see one once that seemed a one-off and had a stick shift 7 speed.. no idea if it was original or was a swap. The mt643 and at545 went out of production right around the beginning of 2003 which I thought was right Around C7 release. So it’s possible some early run busses might’ve received a 545 or 643 with a c7. Manufacturers often buy up and stock up on popular items when a manufacturer announces EOL so thomas and bluebird may have offered those transmissions for the 03 model year but by 04 no one offered the 545 or 643 any longer . Only replacement reman units were available by that point
Christopher

I’m looking at a 2005 bluebird for 8000$
Has air suspension /brakes . Onan generator and about 90,000 miles .
Tried calling cat to see what transmission has but haven’t yet gotten a response.
I know a lot of people hate on c7. Because the emissions junk but it has low miles and engine looks super clean. I don’t think to many people post when things are going alright with them . Seems like it’s more likely to just hear about the problems. I have a 2001 7.3 e350 with 480,000 miles and that has ebp Valve and some kind of emissions control I think. Maybe not . Maybe that’s just an exhaust back pressuree sensor and has nothing to do with emissions .

Anyways a c7 and guy said he thinks it’s a 5 speed.
Should I just avoid cat

[cadillackid]

5 speed would make sense.. if its in a rear engine bus it could very well be an MD3060.. in a front engne bus its most likely the allison 2000 series.. those both would be the right fit for the year..



your 7.3 is void of emissions controls.. the EBPV is a warm-up device.. perhaps it was related to emissions only in the fact it helps the engine to warm up faster than otherwise.. an EBPV doesnt cause damage to the engine if it malfunctions.. you simply dont have any power till you get it to open..



the cat ACERT system malfunctioning often ends up in dealer trips and expenses to fix it... that said the worst ACERT engines and the ones most complained about were the 07 and up stuff.. just like the rest here will mention about navistar.. pre-07 pretty good.. 07 and after - lots of inconsistencies..



your C7 is in my opinion one of the better years to have it... pre 07 and several years since it was created (t was released in 02 or 03).. like any engine maintain it.. the 3126 and C7 are HEUI engines so Keep your oil changed!! oh and its a cat you likely have to adjust its valve lash too.. its solid lifter inline 6..



if the ACERT is malfunctioning you most always have a driveability issue.. so if you go to test drive this bus and it hesitates or idles rough or has a Service warning light on the dash lit.. then run! if its running good and the price is right .. rest of it checks out then i wouldnt pass it up simply because of a C7
-Christopher

[Bangbus]

Thank you man. The ACERT is the railing system huh? I might need to look into the engine a bit more . I have a few weeks of saving and research before he’s ready to sell. What’s the valve lashing?
It perfect size . 30ft has the lift for the dirt bike. Just the guy seems to be asking a little much. And I still am not certain of the transmission just that I’m almost sure now it won’t be the at545

[cadillackid]

ACERT was what cat used instead of EGR... in essence it was supposed to reduce the emissions of unburned combustion gasses that would normally be sent out from the crankcase via the Draft tube.. supposedly it knew also if any unburnt fuel was present in the exhaust as well.. standard EGR just recirculated a set amount of the engine exhaust back into the cylinders to see if it could be burned.. navistar chose EGR cat created ACERT..



the fueling system was HEUI.. . HEUI was a technology developed for electromically controlled diesels by CAT and international. most diesels have a high pressure fuel pump that creates high pressure in metal lines leading up to each injector.. (note the od mechanical CAT 3116, 3208, International DY360,466 ) you'd see hard metal fuel lines.. that fuel pressure was created in response simply to how far you pushed the throttle..



electronic HEUI engines (Cat 3126,C7,Navistar T-444E, DT-466E) as examples.. used extra high pressure engine oil pumped through the heads to actuate the high pressure fuel and inject it.. (later models injected the fuel in 2 stages)..



Valve lash - the rocker arms which are actuated by the Cam shaft press down on the stems of the intake and exahaust valves.. as metal wears / compacts, etc over time there ends up being more clearance or gap between the rocker and the valve stem than there should be.. this may be small but affects when the vavles open and how far they open.. adjusting the Tappets involves taking the top valve cover off, rotating the engine and checking the valves with a feeler gauge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ8YI4dbrTo

-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

5 speed would make sense.. if its in a rear engine bus it could very well be an MD3060.. in a front engne bus its most likely the allison 2000 series.. those both would be the right fit for the year..



your 7.3 is void of emissions controls.. the EBPV is a warm-up device.. perhaps it was related to emissions only in the fact it helps the engine to warm up faster than otherwise.. an EBPV doesnt cause damage to the engine if it malfunctions.. you simply dont have any power till you get it to open..



the cat ACERT system malfunctioning often ends up in dealer trips and expenses to fix it... that said the worst ACERT engines and the ones most complained about were the 07 and up stuff.. just like the rest here will mention about navistar.. pre-07 pretty good.. 07 and after - lots of inconsistencies..



your C7 is in my opinion one of the better years to have it... pre 07 and several years since it was created (t was released in 02 or 03).. like any engine maintain it.. the 3126 and C7 are HEUI engines so Keep your oil changed!! oh and its a cat you likely have to adjust its valve lash too.. its solid lifter inline 6..



if the ACERT is malfunctioning you most always have a driveability issue.. so if you go to test drive this bus and it hesitates or idles rough or has a Service warning light on the dash lit.. then run! if its running good and the price is right .. rest of it checks out then i wouldnt pass it up simply because of a C7
-Christopher

Don't they all require valve adjustments??
I know DT466's require valve adjustments.

[cadillackid]

Iyeppers the dt360,466, and 530 all require it.

, the t444e, vt365, and maxxforce7 all have hydraulic lifters and don’t require adjustment
. I’m not sure on the Cummins if they do or not .someone can comment on those.
Christopher

[Bangbus]

So if this bus has 90,000 miles when should I know when the valves need adjusting?
And after i do it how many miles till the next?
Also it’s a front engine so I’m sure there’s not going to be a whole lot of room.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Bangbus

So if this bus has 90,000 miles when should I know when the valves need adjusting?
And after i do it how many miles till the next?
Also it’s a front engine so I’m sure there’s not going to be a whole lot of room.

Every 15,000 miles. https://www.scribd.com/document/1887...aint-Intervals

[cadillackid]

front engine isnt usually bad to do.. alot of it you do from inside the bus with the doghouse off.. I know most suggestions say every 15-20k, I find they go out of adjustment less often as the engine ages.. seems when they are newer it happens more.. my guess is the metals wear into their groove, most ocmpaction occurs and such then it seems to be less often..



my suggestion would be to do it when you first get the bus home (unless you have service records showing it was done recently).. and use that as your baseline.. one thing you absolutely dont want to do is overtighten them.. ands the procedure I use says to adjust them when the engine is warm. over-tightening will hold a valve open will cause loss of compression in that cylinder. and / or makew that valve vulnerable for being hit by the piston depending on the engine's interference clearance.. (they are all different).. dont guess.. buy a feeler gauge!

check => loosen => check-while-adjusting => tighten locknut => re-check


-Christopher

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Every 15,000 miles. https://www.scribd.com/document/1887...aint-Intervals

That's the initial check done on the first oil change. Do it every 100k.

Oil changes should be done every 5-7k because of the heui system IMO.

Cat engines are hit and miss. Some are great and have no issues, others have nothing but issues with them. Maintenance is a big key to them, but I've seen examples where they still become money pits even when maintained correctly.

The bus has some big ticket items with the air suspension and brakes. If the onan generator is a diesel that's also a positive. I wouldn't shy away from that bus because of the cat engine. I'd offer him 5k and see what he says.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

That's the initial check done on the first oil change. Do it every 100k.

Oil changes should be done every 5-7k because of the heui system IMO.

Cat engines are hit and miss. Some are great and have no issues, others have nothing but issues with them. Maintenance is a big key to them, but I've seen examples where they still become money pits even when maintained correctly.

The bus has some big ticket items with the air suspension and brakes. If the onan generator is a diesel that's also a positive. I wouldn't shy away from that bus because of the cat engine. I'd offer him 5k and see what he says.

I do oil changes every 6k and filter every 3k on my 444E.. HEUI engines Thrive on clean oil and filter..

[Bangbus]

Well he wanted 8500 but I talked him to 7500. I told him I have 5k now and he said he needs more time anyways to do registration. It’s nice with low miles . Just starting to get the feeling anything over 6000 would really be overpaying .
So I’ll change the oil every 6k and filter . There’s a auction happening soon also and I could pay less for a bus but don’t even know if there running and wouldn’t have time to go check them out anyways. If it was a dt466 I’d probalay feel a bit more comfortable .

[cadillackid]

more than 5 or 6k seems high for that bus. that said, if its close and you can actualy test drive it, run its computer for codes, etc.. maybe its worth the extra $$ to know its a bus you put your hands on.. and dont have to spend $$$ on fuel / hotels, etc to drive it across the country



-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

Caterpillar C-7 Diesel Engine - iRV2 Forums

[Bangbus]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

more than 5 or 6k seems high for that bus. that said, if its close and you can actualy test drive it, run its computer for codes, etc.. maybe its worth the extra $$ to know its a bus you put your hands on.. and dont have to spend $$$ on fuel / hotels, etc to drive it across the country



-Christopher

You know what program would allow me to pull codes? And obd2 scanner?

It’s actually is still a drive though. About 12 hours probalay guys in Arizonan headed to Florida and I’m in Houston hoping to meet him on the way or something convienet when we decided to make a deal