Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-16-2016, 07:06 PM   #1
Bus Nut
 
CaptSquid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 914
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: HDX
Engine: Cat C7
Rated Cap: 84 passenger
C7 Hard Start

Where I was parked gave me the old heave-ho and asked that

a. I pay $25 per DAY
or
b. Find another parking space.

Option B

But, I hadn't started the old girl in about a month, so, quite naturally, she didn't want to cooperate. I made sure that I had plenty of go-juice and, prepared for the eventuality that I would need it, had a brand new can of starting juice.

It took 30 minutes to get her going and I used the ENTIRE can of ether.

I'm thinking that the fuel filter and water separator need replacement. What say?
CaptSquid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2016, 07:31 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 12,171
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Ward/AmTran
Chassis: International
Engine: dt466
Rated Cap: 78
I'd definitely try that. How much fuel is in the tank?
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2016, 07:36 PM   #3
Bus Nut
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 651
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
Go easy on the ether!! Your injection system will get addicted to it worse than a drug addict.
Something that I was taught over the years as a heavy equipment operator was to use gasoline on the filter or a spray bottle instead of ether. Gets the same result without the hard knock's and burning up the piston and valves.
The only next thing I would suggest is checking the glow plug wiring and automatic switch. Stay away from ether if you can and check your glow plugs and wiring?
One of my best excavater s had a problem starting after setting and it was because of a broken glow plug wire in the frame somewhere and short term we ran a new hot wire from the battery to the bar that connected all the plugs (on a 4 cyl in this situation ) wire nutted it and used it as needed? It took two people to start it when needed to touch the hot wire to the bar while cranking but it was temporary and worked at the time.
Because it was what it was and in a completely screwed location and the repair bill would be crazy plus downtime we added a toggle switch and connected directly to the glow bar that way the operator/driver didn't need help.
Jolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2016, 07:41 PM   #4
Bus Nut
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 651
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
Sorry forgot to add that I am not a diesel mechanic by trade but I am usually the one thats there to help when it breaks. My ideas are just suggestions to think about are look at?
Jolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 12:38 PM   #5
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 626
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
How cold is it there? When was the last time you filled up? and did you have the block heater plugged in?
Booyah45828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 01:32 PM   #6
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winlcok, WA
Posts: 1,607
Depending upon how cold it was outside the hard starting doesn't surprise me.

Most medium and heavy duty diesel engines do not have any sort of pre-heating provisions for cold starts like glow plugs. When it gets cold out most people plug in their bigger diesels to make them easier to start.

What is more critical than anything else, particularly with newer electronically controlled engines, is you have to have batteries with lots of juice in them. Not only do you have to get the starter to turn a complete turn at a speed fast enough to alert the crank sensor but you have to have enough juice to wake up the computer and tell the pump to turn on and activate the injectors.

I would go easy on the ether. It can break the top rings if you are not careful.
cowlitzcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 01:35 PM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,328
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
One of my best excavater s had a problem starting after setting and it was because of a broken glow plug wire in the frame somewhere and short term we ran a new hot wire from the battery to the bar that connected all the plugs (on a 4 cyl in this situation ) wire nutted it and used it as needed? It took two people to start it when needed to touch the hot wire to the bar while cranking but it was temporary and worked at the time.
Well done! I did the same thing for a friend's Bobcat skid loader last year. I needed to test for leaks after replacing a hydraulic hose late in the fall but it was such a bear to start and battery was in poor condition it would run the battery dead cranking. I figured out the glow plugs weren't getting power when the switch was pushed, so used a jumper wire to heat them up 10 seconds or so and then climbed into the cab and turned the key. I think he still does it that way; he never did bring it back for a proper fix.

The cold start aid seems like a good place to begin. Some engines just don't have one, but at least go looking and verify operation if you find glow plugs or grid heater.

I don't know about the filter being a problem -- did you have any trouble with low engine power when it was run last? When you did finally get it started, did it run fine? I'd think if a filter were causing a starting problem it would also cause running problems.

I'm not familiar with your injection system. Does it have some kind of electric lift pump? Is it working? My ISC (as an entirely unrelated anecdotal example) runs a lift pump only in the beginning; the injection pump is designed to pull fuel all the way from the tank once the engine is running.
family wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 04:58 PM   #8
Bus Nut
 
CaptSquid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 914
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: HDX
Engine: Cat C7
Rated Cap: 84 passenger
Block heater/cold start cord has a missing prong. I've got the new cord, but I can't get under the bus in order to replace it due to my infirmities.

Plenty of fuel on board and new, as well. The temps have been dipping down into the high 30s/low 40s at night lately.

Engine turns very nicely.

--------------

Addendum -- I have to move AGAIN because the owner of the property is bringing in some earth movers in the morning. Can't I get a break? I can't possibly move the bus and my Suburban at the same time. I have to limit the distances to hobbling distances because I'm permanently on crutches.
CaptSquid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 07:05 PM   #9
Bus Nut
 
CaptSquid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 914
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: HDX
Engine: Cat C7
Rated Cap: 84 passenger
Just checked the pricing for fuel filter ($21.99) and water separator ($48.49). No telling how much water is in that separator.
CaptSquid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2016, 11:31 AM   #10
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 626
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
Alright, just making sure you're burning winter fuel instead of summer. If you're thinking that it is turning over fast enough then the block heater isn't necessary. Every C7 I've seen had a grid heater in the intake manifold cover. Even the ones that came from florida, so I'm not sure if it was optional. Their should be two studs on top for the heater, one being power and the other grounded to the manifold. It should be obvious which one is which, so check if you have 12v to it when keyed on.

My guess is that yours is not working. Especially since you used ether on it and it didn't explode in the manifold. Those grids will get cherry hot if you leave them powered on long enough.

If you've never replaced the filters, then I would do it. They're a cheap checkmark on the list of things to cause a no start. But I doubt that the fuel filters are the cause. Just make sure that you prime the new filters.
Booyah45828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.