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10-24-2017, 02:02 PM
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#1
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Damascus, OR
Posts: 681
Year: 2004
Chassis: International
Engine: T444e w/ 2000 Allison Trans
Rated Cap: 35
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C7S Cat engine 2009 question
I am looking at bidding on a 2009 Bluebird with a Cat C7S in it with a 2500 allison. Why do I see such negative reviews about the engine? The unit I am bidding on has around 100K. 8 window special needs bus (about 32 ft long). are the parts expensive? with proper respect and maintenance it should be fine right? Thanks.
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10-24-2017, 02:07 PM
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#2
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Traveling
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovobay
I am looking at bidding on a 2009 Bluebird with a Cat C7S in it with a 2500 allison. Why do I see such negative reviews about the engine? The unit I am bidding on has around 100K. 8 window special needs bus (about 32 ft long). are the parts expensive? with proper respect and maintenance it should be fine right? Thanks.
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Emissions: They didn't have the recipe quite right yet.
Cat: Proprietary Pricey Parts
...that's 2 strikes on that bus. Why do you think they are unloading such a new, low mile bus?
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10-24-2017, 04:34 PM
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#3
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Damascus, OR
Posts: 681
Year: 2004
Chassis: International
Engine: T444e w/ 2000 Allison Trans
Rated Cap: 35
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so you think I'd be better off with a TC1000 flat nose 1996 with 260k? might seem like it. plus that bus is 1000 miles away compared to the TC1000 at around 150!
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10-24-2017, 05:07 PM
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#4
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Traveling
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovobay
so you think I'd be better off with a TC1000 flat nose 1996 with 260k? might seem like it. plus that bus is 1000 miles away compared to the TC1000 at around 150!
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Plenty of other buses around the Country... Go drive the little guy- drive a few, it's fun ! Go talk to a dealer, then most prefer to buy from auctions and roll the dice.
Take a minute and write down your goal for the vehicle you envision. Number of occupants, towing a car, full-time/part time. How tall your posse is mattes, as well. What State you live in has bearing, as well as if you want to spend a lot of time going up and down mountains.
Some people on the Board here are making Party buses and others are making Tiny Homes, so advice will vary with circumstances.
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10-24-2017, 06:54 PM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,762
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovobay
so you think I'd be better off with a TC1000 flat nose 1996 with 260k? might seem like it. plus that bus is 1000 miles away compared to the TC1000 at around 150!
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I'd take a TC with a blown engine over that 09. SERIOUSLY!
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10-24-2017, 07:12 PM
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#6
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Damascus, OR
Posts: 681
Year: 2004
Chassis: International
Engine: T444e w/ 2000 Allison Trans
Rated Cap: 35
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Thanks community! wow, there is a lot of hate for the Cat engines not just here, but various forums including professional truckers.... No wonder they stopped making hwy speed models and are sticking to the heavy equipment. from what I have gathered too, is that the older stuff doesn't have all the EPA restricting stuff and are non-computerized units. Plus the 5.9 Cummins has a wide availability of parts. I am in Oregon, so there are a lot of mountain passes to deal with. I guess I'll need to learn that driving slow over a pass is not a problem as I am use to hauling butt with my duramax diesel hauling anything fully loaded. my intentions are to use it as a family adventure rig as well as hunting. lots of forest service roads. that I why I am looking for something not so long. the TC 1000 is about 27 feet, only 7 feet longer than my truck. Thanks again!
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10-24-2017, 07:18 PM
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#7
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Owasso, OK
Posts: 2,627
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovobay
Thanks community! wow, there is a lot of hate for the Cat engines not just here, but various forums including professional truckers.... No wonder they stopped making hwy speed models and are sticking to the heavy equipment. from what I have gathered too, is that the older stuff doesn't have all the EPA restricting stuff and are non-computerized units. Plus the 5.9 Cummins has a wide availability of parts. I am in Oregon, so there are a lot of mountain passes to deal with. I guess I'll need to learn that driving slow over a pass is not a problem as I am use to hauling butt with my duramax diesel hauling anything fully loaded. my intentions are to use it as a family adventure rig as well as hunting. lots of forest service roads. that I why I am looking for something not so long. the TC 1000 is about 27 feet, only 7 feet longer than my truck. Thanks again!
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It's not the engines that are disliked. The engines are very good. It's what happens when they break.
CAT will not release parts to the secondary market, so rebuilds, and all spares, are much more expensive than others. Plus, they don't make an engine with wet liners, so a rebuild involves the removal of the engine.
This insistence on keeping everything proprietary and "in-house" may be great for the dealers, not so much for the owners who vote with their wallets.
You will find exactly the same criticism of John Deere on the agri forums.
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10-24-2017, 07:19 PM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Like most manufacturers, CAT built some good motors and some that did not fair so well.
I don't think that there is much "hate" here for CAT. Just a strong preference for motors that are less expensive to maintain and have easier parts availability.
My father worked in the trucking industry for 40+ years. He hated CAT....,.
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10-24-2017, 07:41 PM
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#9
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Traveling
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovobay
lots of forest service roads. that I why I am looking for something not so long. the TC 1000 is about 27 feet, only 7 feet longer than my truck. Thanks again!
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That TC is a nice little bus, but check out the approach/departure angle- Might not be best choice for off-road.
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10-24-2017, 07:44 PM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,762
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Low floor buses and little wheels/tires don't do well offroad. Ask Dredman.
I call these buses lowriders!
For rough roads a CE is hard to beat.
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10-24-2017, 09:57 PM
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#11
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 993
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
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The biggest problem with the 09 cat engines is the deisel particulate filter. They have had problems not regenerating correctly which means an expensive tow to the shop. This is probably the reason that bus is for sale. The dpf problems along with a couple law suits were what led cat to leave the truck engine market.
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10-24-2017, 09:58 PM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,707
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
Low floor buses and little wheels/tires don't do well offroad. Ask Dredman.
I call these buses lowriders!
For rough roads a CE is hard to beat.
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a CE with 11R22.5's. my redbyrd with 225/70R19.5s feels like its gonna get stuck even when I navigate john's driveway..
-Christopher
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10-25-2017, 04:52 AM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,762
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
a CE with 11R22.5's. my redbyrd with 225/70R19.5s feels like its gonna get stuck even when I navigate john's driveway..
-Christopher
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YOur bus and Dredman's bus have less ground clearance than my Subaru.
That front axle beam is what, three inches off the ground?
Same with Thomas Vistas.
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10-25-2017, 06:21 AM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,707
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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I know that axle beam is so low tyou cant even slide part of an oil drain pan under it.. and inm general so low that I cant use a standard 5 gallon bucket to change the oil.. I have to use a flatter 10 gallon tote to drain the oil..
on DEV with 11R's I just put a 5 gallon bucket under and go.
-Christopher
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10-25-2017, 06:33 AM
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#15
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Traveling
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
I know that axle beam is so low tyou cant even slide part of an oil drain pan under it.. and inm general so low that I cant use a standard 5 gallon bucket to change the oil.. I have to use a flatter 10 gallon tote to drain the oil..
on DEV with 11R's I just put a 5 gallon bucket under and go.
-Christopher
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I probably should get something to catch the oil when I change mine.
I usually pull into the Autozone, pull the drain plug and by the time I purchase my oil, she's empty. Just watch that puddle getting in.
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10-25-2017, 07:57 AM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,707
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty
I probably should get something to catch the oil when I change mine.
I usually pull into the Autozone, pull the drain plug and by the time I purchase my oil, she's empty. Just watch that puddle getting in.
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ha! i remember when the auto parts store parking lot was a community car-repair shop.. lol there was always people wrenching.. and sharing tools.. of course nowadays their lawyers tell them to run people off..
I suppose the parking lot storm-drain getting more oil and coolant than rain probably had something to do with it..
-Christopher
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