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Old 09-08-2019, 04:35 AM   #1
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Is this CAT running too hot?

Since we have been in the high 90's and even into the 100's, I have noticed that our CAT 3126 runs quite warm. I know the engine is set up to run around 190 degrees to about 215 degrees. The water temperature regulators are dual 190 degree thremostats, per the factory stndard. The wastegate opens at 21.5 PSI plus or minus 05 PSI, thus the boost pressure maximum is about 21 PSI. The vehicle is 17000 pounds. There are two alternators powering a 13.5 kBTU Coleman Roughneck air conditioner through a 3000W inverter. When the air conditioner is turned on it increases the engine load by 2%. while at idle or a touch more than 1% at fast idle (1200 RPM).


I have a BlueFire J1939 adapter from which I pulled the following data (well, my wife pulled the data while I was driving):


Code:
Date: 09-07-2019
Ambient air temperature: 97 degrees

Time  Mileage  Speed  RPM  Coolant  Load  Torque  Boost  Intake  Tranny
17:51     0.0      0  747       97    12      21      0      99      95 Idle in driveway
18:00     0.0      0 1200      147     6      20      1     104     108 Fast idle w/ air on
18:06     0.0      0 1200      167     5      17      1     108     121
18:12     0.5      0  748      189    26      40      3     108     141
18:21     3.3     53 1892      199    15      53      8     109     155
18:27     7.0     63 2215      207    70     100     21     129     191
18:29     8.2     62 2174      223    59      93      8     122     195
18:30     9.0     37 1753      221    31      42      2     111     204
18:35    12.2     35 1274      221    47      68      4     108     215
18:39    14.0     43 1325      219    54      57      4     109     215
18:44    14.6      0  750      214     3       8      0     118     216 In driveway w/o air
18:57    14.6      0  748      192     2       8      0     117     201 Prior to shutdown
Any thoughts?
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:31 AM   #2
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How easy was it to install your BlueFire adapter? I'm thinking of getting one for my bus because I have the common problem where my dashboard occasionally freezes for a few minutes at a time, but I don't know if the BlueFire would fix this or if my BlueFire would then freeze up occasionally.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:03 AM   #3
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the bluefire is as easy as plug it into the diagnostic port on the dash, load the app and go.. you can customize your own dash screens if you wantto use it as a tablet dash like i do in my bus..



as for this data.. yeah its running warm.. id have expected the fan to be blazing at temps of 220.. this is an FS65 you should really hear the fan... if its not running hard then you needto check some things..


1. is it as viscous clutch? if so is your coolant level correct and full? is your rasdiator free of debris?
viscous clutches use the AIR TEMP from the radiator to slowly ramp up and down.

it could also be going bad..


also if the temp spikes really quickly it can be a thermostat issue.. if it is a slow ramp up then I suspect the fan clutch or coolant level or radiaot debris..



-Christopher
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:20 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the bluefire is as easy as plug it into the diagnostic port on the dash, load the app and go.. you can customize your own dash screens if you wantto use it as a tablet dash like i do in my bus..
Hmm, it sounds like this would not fix my intermittent freezing problem, then.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:23 AM   #5
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Mine runs 180-190 under light load and 210-220 at full load.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:55 AM   #6
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the OP is hitting in the 220s and not even 100% load factor
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Old 09-08-2019, 04:31 PM   #7
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The data is AFTER replacing the thermostats, the overflow pressure cap, the fan clutch, blowing and washing the radiator and intercooler.


I have paced a piece of paper on the outside of the intercooler and the fan does draw the paper against the intercooler and holds it well ... at all locations aroud the intercooler.. Also, I have never heard the fan ROAR as others have noted.


I have heard the turbine spinning up from time to time.


The coolant level is proper and it does not puke coolant. The coolant is clean. I have also performed a water pump test by disconnecting the shunt line that feeds back into the overflow. This line does move coolant, but I can stop it with my thumb and minor pressure.


Notice in the data that as soon as I get rolling above 55 MPH the temperature starts to climb and stays elevated until a long duration at 45 MPH or slower.
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:52 AM   #8
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Additional detail ... the heaters have been deleted and all of the hoses removed right into the engine compartment. This has the effect of reducing the amount of coolant in the system and thus the amount of cooling capacity.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:46 AM   #9
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the heaters shouldnt affect it.. most busses run the summer months wit hthe heater valves closed all the time
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:56 AM   #10
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My transmission was low on fluid causing engine to run hot. 3126b/md3060
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Since we have been in the high 90's and even into the 100's, I have noticed that our CAT 3126 runs quite warm. I know the engine is set up to run around 190 degrees to about 215 degrees. The water temperature regulators are dual 190 degree thremostats, per the factory stndard. The wastegate opens at 21.5 PSI plus or minus 05 PSI, thus the boost pressure maximum is about 21 PSI. The vehicle is 17000 pounds. There are two alternators powering a 13.5 kBTU Coleman Roughneck air conditioner through a 3000W inverter. When the air conditioner is turned on it increases the engine load by 2%. while at idle or a touch more than 1% at fast idle (1200 RPM).


I have a BlueFire J1939 adapter from which I pulled the following data (well, my wife pulled the data while I was driving):


Code:
Date: 09-07-2019
Ambient air temperature: 97 degrees

Time  Mileage  Speed  RPM  Coolant  Load  Torque  Boost  Intake  Tranny
17:51     0.0      0  747       97    12      21      0      99      95 Idle in driveway
18:00     0.0      0 1200      147     6      20      1     104     108 Fast idle w/ air on
18:06     0.0      0 1200      167     5      17      1     108     121
18:12     0.5      0  748      189    26      40      3     108     141
18:21     3.3     53 1892      199    15      53      8     109     155
18:27     7.0     63 2215      207    70     100     21     129     191
18:29     8.2     62 2174      223    59      93      8     122     195
18:30     9.0     37 1753      221    31      42      2     111     204
18:35    12.2     35 1274      221    47      68      4     108     215
18:39    14.0     43 1325      219    54      57      4     109     215
18:44    14.6      0  750      214     3       8      0     118     216 In driveway w/o air
18:57    14.6      0  748      192     2       8      0     117     201 Prior to shutdown
Any thoughts?
anything over 200 is too hot. Water boils at 212. You're literally cooking the engine oil and seals. 180-190 is ideal temp.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL View Post
anything over 200 is too hot. Water boils at 212. You're literally cooking the engine oil and seals. 180-190 is ideal temp.
That's not true in a sealed system. There's a 200 and 207 degree thermostats available for mine.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:25 AM   #13
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Correct. Pressure and antifreeze increases boiling point.


Under heavy load, I'd say 220 is about the safe limit... but with yours not being under load and running 220... I'd say possibly a water pump issue or something more severe (considering the list of things you've already done).


Could be getting combustion gas in the cooling system which will cause temps to run high...


Or water pump could be weak (or impeller spinning on shaft/broken).
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:53 AM   #14
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Any coolant temp below boil over is safe. Once boil over occurs control of the system is lost and you're overheating.

Granted, you don't want to run at 240 all the time, but to say anything over 200 is too hot is incorrect.

Yeah, 221 is pretty warm, but I wouldn't worry about it normally.

What I would worry about is the tranny temp you're running. You have something wrong if you're that hot on transmission temp, My at545 running down the highway hovers around 150. And that's measured at the converter outlet.

Once you fix that, you'll likely have found the cause of your elevated coolant temps.
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:39 PM   #15
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my take on cooling

usually things get cooler when the air gets moving through the radiators, yours is not. I suspect the inside of the radiator is getting full of junk. Needs to be removed, "rodded out" an reinstalled. moving through the air at 50 mph should allow enough air to get through the radiator to make a fan not needed. This is my experience with cars and trucks over the last 30 years or so.

I was going to comment on air intake temperature, but, looking at the numbers, The intercooler seems to be working pretty well.

I assume your bus doe not have one of those funky half size radiators with one side a radiator and the other side an intercooler.

200 to me, is an optimal temperature... makes the most power and gets the most out of the fuel burned. 190 is too cool and 230 is too much...

I sure looks like the temperature climbed the most when at or near 100 percent torque. the heat load comes in a touch after you get there and that is expected, there is not going to be an instant change in temperature.

takes a while to get the coolant down after you have taken to load off the engine... again makes think there is an insulating layer of crud built up on the inner walls of the cooling tubes in the radiator.

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Old 09-10-2019, 04:04 PM   #16
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What Booyah said: The transmission cooler line runs through the radiator so excess trans heat will effect coolant temp as well...

But I would also use an IR temp gun (cheap from harbour fright) to verify how hot things are getting. If the coolant temp sensor is off, it's giving "bad" info to both your dash gauge and the ecm...

Do you have an additional tranny cooler to the one running through the radiator?

You can bypass the tranny line through the radiator (temporarily!) to see if it significantly reduces eng coolant temp.

You can do a sniffer test on the radiator to detect CO if you suspect head gasket failure for any reason.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:33 PM   #17
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The transmission is indeed part of the total heat equation/system. I just checked the transmission fluid. It is at level and is remarkably clean and clear ... like new clear. I have yet to figure out how to run an IR gun while driving at speed. (just kidding) I have shot the radiator with the IR gun while testing for the fan clutch operation, but not recenty and not in conjunction with readings from the ECM. I believe one of the next steps is to take various temperature readings off of the block and various parts and compare with the ECM coolant temperature. After all, sensors do go bad.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:18 PM   #18
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I bought one of these and uses HVAC tape to tape sensors to metal inlet and outlet of radiators, A/C coils and the like for various testing... you can get sensors with longer wires..


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Additional detail ... the heaters have been deleted and all of the hoses removed right into the engine compartment. This has the effect of reducing the amount of coolant in the system and thus the amount of cooling capacity.
I doubt by much though. It will be the same as if you just didn't turn the heaters on.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL View Post
anything over 200 is too hot. Water boils at 212. You're literally cooking the engine oil and seals. 180-190 is ideal temp.
Water does not boil at 212* in a pressurized system. Boiling point goes up by 3* for every PSI. Most caps are in the 14-16PSI, effectively raising the boiling point to 257*. 210 is not too hot.
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