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Old 12-04-2016, 03:52 PM   #21
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Never buy a CAT.

OK, I don't have a shoolie yet, still looking.
I Googled Cat 3126 engine life, trying to find out more about the engine before
buying a schoolie, because so many had Cats in them.
Interestingly enough, the comments I found were that the Cat 3126 didn't like to idle for long periods of time. Boats and farm machinery lived well, but highway uses didn't fair so good. Well,,, guess what a school bus does for most of it's service life?

In the same search I stumbled on to a forum by school bus supervisors.
One supervisor was considering the cost of a reman on his 3126s. He was lamenting the fact that he only got about 125k miles out of some of his engines, 250K was about the max. The reman cost was about $12K for a FE schoolie and slightly less for a pusher.
Another supervisor chimed in, stating that he felt the first guy's pain, as he had 26 Cat 3126s in his fleet.

I am a retired tech. trainer for a major truck manufacturer. I was trained on the 3126 as Cat introduced it. Interesting engine.
As a manufacturer, we had many more warranty claims on the Cat than Cummins.

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Old 12-04-2016, 04:39 PM   #22
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wasnt the 3126 the first HEUI engine released? even before the T-444E?

the HEUI system has to be maintained totally different than previous all mechanical engines.. lengthening oil-drain times on a HEUI engine WILL shorten its life...

it causes injecotrs to stick and dump fuel into cylinders washing out rings, diluting the oil causing bearing failures, etc..
-Christopher
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Old 12-04-2016, 05:54 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonejack View Post
OK, I don't have a shoolie yet, still looking.
I Googled Cat 3126 engine life, trying to find out more about the engine before
buying a schoolie, because so many had Cats in them.
Interestingly enough, the comments I found were that the Cat 3126 didn't like to idle for long periods of time. Boats and farm machinery lived well, but highway uses didn't fair so good. Well,,, guess what a school bus does for most of it's service life?

In the same search I stumbled on to a forum by school bus supervisors.
One supervisor was considering the cost of a reman on his 3126s. He was lamenting the fact that he only got about 125k miles out of some of his engines, 250K was about the max. The reman cost was about $12K for a FE schoolie and slightly less for a pusher.
Another supervisor chimed in, stating that he felt the first guy's pain, as he had 26 Cat 3126s in his fleet.

I am a retired tech. trainer for a major truck manufacturer. I was trained on the 3126 as Cat introduced it. Interesting engine.
As a manufacturer, we had many more warranty claims on the Cat than Cummins.
Did you see that over on School Bus Fleet forum? I've found that site to be FULL of great info on bus drivetrains.
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Old 01-20-2018, 12:50 PM   #24
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Hey, I know this is an old thread.

It is a general consensus to avoid the Cat 3126 engine on a skoolie?

I only ask because I'm ready to buy one now and found 3 buses available that fit what I'm looking for, all Blue Birds, all have the Cat 3126 engine and 2500 transmission. I don't want to miss out as I am pushed for time and need to get the project underway ASAP but don't want to rush into a good bus with a rubbish engine or one that's going to cause problems.

Since I'm not in the US, I need to get it shipped to England, I don't want to end up with a lemon that's going to fail or cost me a fortune to maintain. I heard the DT466 with Allison MT643 is a good combo. Looking for the longest buses, 40 ft, 84 passenger type.
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Old 01-20-2018, 01:04 PM   #25
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Lots of opinions here regarding Cat engines in general. Consensus seems to be that they are fine...as long as they are running. But any parts or repairs appear to be far more costly than most other diesels with the possible exception of Mercedes.

An all mechanical 466 paired with an Allie 643 or 2000 would definitely fall into the "highly sought after" category.
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Old 01-20-2018, 01:05 PM   #26
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There's a lot of personal preference in liking or disliking cat engines. Maintenance records would carry a lot of weight in your situation.

The 2500 is a good transmission in my understanding. Much better than the 643 I'd expect.
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Old 01-20-2018, 05:16 PM   #27
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Thank you Tango & Robin.

I’ve seen a few with 2000 & 2500 transmission rather than the MT643 so that’s good to know. Risk of sounding stupid alert - what are the obvious differences between those, I.e. advantage of a 2000/2500 over the 643? (I don’t want to take away from this thread by asking that so if it’s in approximate no problem).

Appreciate what you’re saying about the split. I guess I wouldn’t be as fussy if it wasn’t for the fact I’m not in the US. I’m in England so I need to minimise as much as possible. I know I won’t get away from problems or maintenance issues entirely obviously so it’s really about trying to minimise it and beyond that, hoping for the best.
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:16 PM   #28
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The 2000 series has more lockers and gears than the 643. It's often found behind larger engines. Those are two very good reasons to me.

We can help you minimize your risk in this venture, although like you we are also at a distance.
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:33 PM   #29
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Ah ok cool so probably better then since I’m wanting the largest skoolie I can get (minimum 40ft internal) so the ones with 15 or 16 windows on the driver side, like the 84+ passenger. So it’ll probably help with the extra weight and power needed I imagine.

Yeah I forget that even though I’m in England over the sea, the US is huge so even being a few states away if you’re nowhere near anywhere with bus parts or service it’s probably just as inconvenient and expensive.

Thanks for tour input, it actually helped since I’ve seen a few with that transmission and was unsure so it’s helped at the perfect time, really appreciated
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
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The 2000 series has more lockers and gears than the 643. It's often found behind larger engines. Those are two very good reasons to me.

We can help you minimize your risk in this venture, although like you we are also at a distance.
The 2000 is more of a replacement to the 545. The 643 was usually put behind larger engines. The 3060 is what replaced those. At least that's what I've been led to believe.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:41 PM   #31
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Quote:
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The 2000 is more of a replacement to the 545. The 643 was usually put behind larger engines. The 3060 is what replaced those. At least that's what I've been led to believe.
The 2000 is a slight upgrade on the 1000. It uses tougher components so I would assume the 1000 is the lighter duty that replaced the 545, and the 2000 is designed for heavier use a la 643.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:02 PM   #32
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Ryan, why do you want an American skoolie? Just curious. There's lots of neat English buses for which it is much easier to find parts in England than for a skoolie: a Bristol RE with ECW bus or coach body, an AEC Reliance or Leyland Leopard with Plaxton or Duple body, even an old Mercedes O302? Much though I like all those buses, there's no way I would ever choose to own one of them in this country due to spares and servicing difficulties here.

Many moons ago I toyed with the idea of getting a Gardner-engined Bristol FLF Lodekka when Eastern Counties was getting rid of them, but for umpteen reasons that never happened. Here I am, several decades and several thousand miles away, and I've finally got myself a bus!

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Old 01-20-2018, 08:06 PM   #33
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2000 series is an electronic 5 speed overdrive with lockup torque converter, it weighs 350 pounds and has a max rating not much higher than the AT545, the MT643 is a 4 speed auto, direct drive, lockup torque converter, all mechanical, weighs 650 pounds and has a higher rating than the 2000
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:30 PM   #34
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the 1000 / 2000 are pretty much the same.. (ratios are slightly different in the scbool bus models) the 2000 is a 1000 built to an OEM spec.. and then given a different series number..

the 545 is a non-lockup 4 speed with a 1:1 ratio at top gear..
the 643 is a lockup 4 speed with a 1:1 ratio top gear
the 1000 is a 5 speed (pre 2006) or 6 speed (2006+) lockup. 5th gear is .71, 6th gear is .61 ratios {Note most all school bus applications dont allow 6th gear at all}

the 2000 is a 5 speed (pre 2006) or 6 speed (2006+) lockup. 5th gear is .74 and 6th gear is .64 {note most all school bus applications dont allow 6th gear}

the MD3060 is a 6 speed lockup, 5th gear is .75 and 6th is .65 {Note most all school bus applications dont allow 6th gear}

the 1000 / 2000 first came on the market in the early 00 model year in navistar school busses .. they were widely seen by 03 / 04 as the AT545 was discontinued.

the MD3060 was around in the late 90s on (it is identified easly by its Pushbutton dashboard controller).. all of the 3060s were 6 speed but generally were electronically inhibited to 5 gears on school busses..

some here in the forum have been succesful iun getting manufacturer sign-off to get their units reprogrammed to allow for 6th gear operation.

swapping transmissions can be done.. but isnt for the inexperienced person to do it as there can be many factors involved.. more than one of us on the forum have upgraded transmissions and its either been a pricey shop bill or a lot of work to complete..
-Christopher
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:18 PM   #35
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The 2000 is a slight upgrade on the 1000. It uses tougher components so I would assume the 1000 is the lighter duty that replaced the 545, and the 2000 is designed for heavier use a la 643.
THe 1000 and 2000 series are more or less the same, buses all have 2000's as far as I've ever seen. Other than Chris' custom creation. The 1000's went into pickup trucks. The 643 was what 466's and 8.3's got until the 3060 started to be used.
You assumed wrong, sir!
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:16 PM   #36
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Here's some data on each. The 643 is below, the 2100/2200 is a PDF so I could not pull out just one set of specs.

ALLISON MT 643 SPECIFICATIONS
P&D, Utility Truck and Dump Truck Rating
Net input power 250 hp (186 kW)
Net input torque 640 lb-ft (868 N·m)
Vehicle weight Up to 73,280 lbs (33,240 kg) GVW or GCW



http://www.allisontransmission.com/d...).pdf?sfvrsn=2
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:18 PM   #37
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I was just looking at a bus with a cat C7, and what I learned from that search was basically cats are ok, but expect to spend a little more on repairs, but started going more downhill when they came out with C7 and C7 acert, so your 3126 was a better one than the c7 I guess
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:37 AM   #38
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Quote:
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I was just looking at a bus with a cat C7, and what I learned from that search was basically cats are ok, but expect to spend a little more on repairs, but started going more downhill when they came out with C7 and C7 acert, so your 3126 was a better one than the c7 I guess
You are correct.

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Old 01-21-2018, 08:45 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
THe 1000 and 2000 series are more or less the same, buses all have 2000's as far as I've ever seen. Other than Chris' custom creation. The 1000's went into pickup trucks. The 643 was what 466's and 8.3's got until the 3060 started to be used.
You assumed wrong, sir!
1000s were stock in the IC BE series

-Christopher
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:55 AM   #40
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if we look at this from a Pure Reality standpoint, internally repairing ANY diesel engine in a school bus is going to stress the budget of most people on this forum..
whether it be navistar, cat, Mercedes, cummins etc..

so you go out and find a bus with a healthy, good running engine in it, take care of it, and you probably drive your bus for many years..

theres only a few on here racking up serious miles and hours on their rigs.. many only put a few thousand on per year.

rather than avoid certain brands, id say avoid engines that appear to be ragged out or abused.. or have issues from the beginning.. "oh it just idles rough when its cold".. or "check engine light is on".. would be things that the average skoolie buyer should click 'Next' on the auction site..
-Christopher
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