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Old 04-04-2015, 07:36 PM   #1
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PSA: Don't buy a CAT-engined bus.

Seriously. Just don't. Get something with a Cummins or DT466 or T444e or anything else. Thanks. PM me with any questions.
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Old 04-04-2015, 08:45 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by porkchopsandwiches View Post
Seriously. Just don't. Get something with a Cummins or DT466 or T444e or anything else. Thanks. PM me with any questions.
What happened to turn you against them?

Was it all that work you had to do?

Nat
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Old 04-05-2015, 06:27 AM   #3
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:59 AM   #4
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I don't know about that. The 3406 was a pretty great engine, although at 14.5L it'd be overkill for a school bus. I don't think we've had too many problems with 3126 mechanical engines either. However, once cat went to electronic injection, especially their acert program, the engines went to ****.
If it was me if avoid any engine that uses high pressure oil to drive the injectors, it's a good thought on paper but it just doesn't work that well in life.
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Old 04-05-2015, 04:49 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
I don't know about that. The 3406 was a pretty great engine, although at 14.5L it'd be overkill for a school bus. I don't think we've had too many problems with 3126 mechanical engines either. However, once cat went to electronic injection, especially their acert program, the engines went to ****.
If it was me if avoid any engine that uses high pressure oil to drive the injectors, it's a good thought on paper but it just doesn't work that well in life.
Unless it's the HUEI 7.3l powerstroke!! That had their share of problems...like the AB injectors they used in the beginning of 99 with the small turbo. From what I've heard, not knowing anything about CAT, most HUEI setups were very solid, just never use synthetics! But more to it you're relying more on the quality of sensitive components like the injector driver module, high pressure oil sensor, the high pressure oil pump, etc... Little bit different from say the ol' p7100, I think that would run with a pound of dirt in it and good ol' poppit injectors...if it could be squeezed thru them and spontaneously combusted that engine (12v 5.9l ��) would run on it, ie diesel, veggie oil, tranny fluid, maybe even Doritos
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Old 04-05-2015, 07:18 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Destroymix View Post
Unless it's the HUEI 7.3l powerstroke!! That had their share of problems...like the AB injectors they used in the beginning of 99 with the small turbo. From what I've heard, not knowing anything about CAT, most HUEI setups were very solid, just never use synthetics! But more to it you're relying more on the quality of sensitive components like the injector driver module, high pressure oil sensor, the high pressure oil pump, etc... Little bit different from say the ol' p7100, I think that would run with a pound of dirt in it and good ol' poppit injectors...if it could be squeezed thru them and spontaneously combusted that engine (12v 5.9l ��) would run on it, ie diesel, veggie oil, tranny fluid, maybe even Doritos
splain why not synthetic.
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Old 04-05-2015, 08:46 PM   #7
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splain why not synthetic.
It's like this Lucy. "Supposedly" the synthetic is "harder" to compress then its conventional Dino counterpart. 15w40 Rotella T, arguably the best oil out there for a compression ignition engine, low on detergents. The equivalent 5w40 is of course thinner, but contains a lot more detergents.

So 2 things I'll say here and then I'll sit back while the attacks come, lol: 1st with synthetic, even matching weights, it will be thinner than conventional, your HUEI motors HPOP's regulator runs about 5-10 more than the same motor with non synthetic. The HPOP makes pressure, the regulator decides how much will get to the injectors. So basically the HPOP has to work a little harder to make the same range of pressure.

2nd, have you ever felt black, "nasty" diesel oil in your hands? All that carbon and soot makes it feel like fine ash. Some have argued that this ash in the oil CONTRIBUTES to lubrication. I cannot say for sure personally.

I did take 3 classes back in the day for ford 6.0 repair since I was seeing soooo many in the shop. One consensus among all the instructors was synthetic was terrible for those motors, as we all may know, the 6.0 is a long shot from the 7.3. I've heard a lot of bad stuff about synthetic oil, that it's a leak finder and such, but I still use it in my suby! I've pulled off valve covers at 100k where the valve train was so clean there wasn't a spot of varnish, nothing but conventional oil, and opposite I've done BMW timing chains that used nothing but synthetic at 60k and had to chisel out the sludge and upsell an oil pan removal so I could clean the pickup tube. Now the bmw was doing 10k intervals and the Toyota was doing 5k.

Honestly you could probably use anything, just please be religious about changing it. Oil analysis is good too, use to do that for a fire department. And I always put BG MOA in everything....except for wet clutch motorcycles.

Nothing but love for synthetic BTW.
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:51 PM   #8
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I'll agree on the synthetic part. But I always attributed the problem to the longer oil change intervals when using synthetic than anything actually with the oil. Heui engines NEED clean oil. When you have tolerance levels in microns, you can't use dirty oil to drive them. It just doesn't work. Another thing people don't realize is the shearing effect Heui pumps and injectors have on the oil molecule that seems to take away the lubricity of the oil. I've worked on 3126, c7, c9, dt466e, maxxforce, 7.3 and 6.0 engines and never really seen a difference in reliability between one Heui engine to the next. All I can say is change the oil, change it often, and use good filters.
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Old 04-06-2015, 10:48 PM   #9
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Nicely put!
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Old 04-07-2015, 06:09 AM   #10
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hmmm, never thought about the compression thing. makes sense tho. conventional dino oil has more air in it? thats the only thing i can think of, as we all know you cant conpress a liquid. you state the synthetic is thinner, but is that at lower temps? how about once the engine is at operating temp?

the greatest (and imho only real) benefit of synthetic is its ability to remain oil at higher temps. in an average engine that never heats up, i would run dino. in these modern engines that have elevated operating temps to meet epa regs, synthetic is a necessity.

it has been proven that if synthetic never gets overheated, it never breaks down, only dirty. on out skoolie engines, running at 170-180 max, overheating of the oil would not be a problem.
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