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Old 07-20-2015, 02:55 PM   #11
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Location: Houston, Texas
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Year: 1946
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You guys remind me of why I stuck with an old "one wire" motor! You are WAY beyond my technical level.
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Old 07-20-2015, 04:12 PM   #12
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Nor Cal
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Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightshaker
Engine: Cummins 24V ISB 210
Rated Cap: 30k
Thanks for the useful information!

The fass will be mounted as close to the tank as possible, and depending on where factory Freightliner pick up is. Also a pressure gauge at VP inlet to monitor supply and prob go with the 1/2" line upgrade as well.

I think at this point Im gonna retire the idea of being able to run anytime of live data monitoring. Its gonna be a waste of energy to make all of those systems compatible and I want to retain factory diagnostic capabilities if need be.

So everything will be stand alone gauges and figuring out a cool way to get fancy with said gauges.

The only reason for any electronic tuning at all is so I can run some timing (for mileage and power). Ive always been VERY disappointed with factory timing curve and the lack of overall timing advance. I think the comp box will be enough for that on the lower levels. I guess I could run a HO dodge VP but they are junk/unreliable and to pick up 10hp worth of timing (rated 235 HO vs 225 SO). Its just not worth it.

I wish I had a way to measure timing with the industrial ECM vs comparable factory dodge and again vs the max advance that a wire tapped pump can achieve. Any Ideas?

I will also never in my life run anything other than a factory SO VP44. I have some pretty terrible experience running any type of modified "performance" VP. But that is an alternative to running a tuner to gain some timing advance. (if were gonna discuss ALL available options)

Booyah, why are you not a fan of intercept tuning? Do you prefer ecm reflash tuning? Or just against tuning in general?
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Old 07-21-2015, 09:57 AM   #13
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Join Date: May 2014
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I prefer flash tuning, simply for the fact it's one less thing to go wrong. Any kind of flash tuning that comes from a company with good credibility is fine by me. I've had too many vehicles come in going haywire and not running worth a **** for no discernible reason, only to find some dipstick had a tuner on it. A new ecm later and the truck runs fine, only to have the dipstick put the same tuner back on to f*ck it up again. Then accuse me of not fixing it. Tuners have become a complete pain in my a$$, because anybody with a pulse can hook up to the obd2 port and do it, yet they all disappear when it comes time to be accountable for the damage.

Anyways, I'll get off my soap box.

You can run the 235 tune on a SO pump(I think 235 actually used the SO pump). So go ahead and flash the higher hp tune. Anything more then that, and you should swap in the hard parts.

I've never monkeyed with the tunes on busses(never had a reason to). So I'm not sure how a 235hp truck tune will compare to a tune on a bus. I imagine they would be different(why would they make it simple) so rated torque and torque rise would be another thing I'd look at when swapping around.
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Old 07-21-2015, 08:30 PM   #14
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Nor Cal
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Year: 1999
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Chassis: Freightshaker
Engine: Cummins 24V ISB 210
Rated Cap: 30k
Yeah, I completely understand. No comment made was intended to be an attack or anything of the like. I enjoy some intelligent opinions/debate. Were good!

I do also agree with EVERYTHING youve said about any tuning period. Speaking from a shop point of view. It is impossible to convince an uneducated person about the possible bad effects of a tuner, and also near impossible to test for tuner separately for issues it may be causing related to ecm failure.

I wish our local CAT dealer would let me run some dyno pulls to actually see with REAL data the effects of the minor differences. Im after the education of the differences in tuning to compare with all the other ISBs (Dodge trucks) weve modified over the years.

I do know for fact (at least 2.5 years ago) that the HO (high output, Dodge 3500s w/manual) was a different pump OEM than the SO (standard output) and that timing was slightly modified within the VP to achieve a slightly higher output. And also that a SO pump will work in place of a HO with no adverse effects. But to speak for the ecm "tuning" differences, I cannot.

My next query is to the actual real world strength of my allison?
Mines a lock up capable MT643 and is in perfect mechanical condition. Ill be putting a call into my local trans parts warehouse to see if there are any upgradable parts or frictions to install and/or a way to increase holding capability. From what Ive read the transmission is capable of pretty extreme weights with a dismally low power input. So im a little concerned there. 250hp with 72k rated weight if i recall correctly? I plan on wayyyyy less weight with wayyyyy more power. I hope its not a recipe for some roached clutches
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Old 07-22-2015, 06:02 PM   #15
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 626
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
Bro, I didn't take it as an attack, of course we're good. I was just venting because it pertained to the subject at hand. None of that was directed at you or anyone else on this forum.

Try and get cozy with the dyno operator, He's the one that'll unlock the place on a Saturday afternoon and let you have at it. Hell, if he's any good, he will throw a few pointers here and there while you do it.

Are you sure 235 was HO? I thought they only put the HO vp44 on the isb245 which started in 2001. All vp44's before that were all SO for both manuals and autos. Let me know what you think.

If I had to guess, the trans would be fine with an increase in hp, just don't increase the rated torque if you can. Auto transmissions are odd when it comes to rating them, and even more different when modifying. All I can tell you for sure is good luck!
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