After market upgrades for 5.9

maj · 03-10-2010, 08:03 PM

Has anyone seen the upgrades from banks power? I like the packages.

dentedvw · 03-11-2010, 09:41 PM

Yes, but the trouble is most of those packages are bundled with premade tubing, and none of it will work in the bus, as it's made for a Dodge Ram. Are you good with welding seemingly endless stainless tubing in bizarre angles? I would love some more power out of our bus, but the cost rivals the cost of another bus.

You could get a shop to fabricate the entire thing, but again, it's cost prohibitive in most cases. Will the benefit really be worth it? I have a hard time believing it.

the_experience03 · 03-11-2010, 10:18 PM

What transmission does your bus have? Most AT545's are running at about their limit in a fullsize bus with ~200 hp to it. The MT643 has a much higher threshold for adding power. There are 320101919 Dodge truck forums out there with just about any information you would need for upgrading your Cummins, many of which are pretty low buck.

Jarlaxle · 03-29-2010, 05:08 PM

The AT545 is pretty much at its limit in a big bus...it's a delivery truck transmission that has essentially a heavy-duty TH400 torque converter. THAT is the weak link...it's not hard to cook a 545 with turned-up power. I wouldn't go past 200HP with an AT545.

(That's one reason I got a bus with a DT466 instead of a 5.9 Cummins or a DT360.)

dentedvw · 04-17-2010, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thanatos

The spring kit, a fuel plate and an EGT guage will all run you about 400.00 retail. Install will vary,but if you are in new england, I can hook you up with a couple of fellows who will treat you right. It only takes about two hours for the whole deal...maybe three.

If you do it, you will fall in love with your bus.

Also, are you folks aware of how much more you can get out of your cummins just by adding a cooler to it? If your turbo line goes directly to your intake, you can get a whole new engine just by adding an aftercooler...with zero strain on the engine...in fact, it is a lot better for the motor.

Cool, great info! Can you help a brother out a bit, and maybe help me out with where to find the spring kit, fuel plate? Unfortunately, I am not in NE area.

And I would love more info on adding an aftercooler too. Anything I can do, I am having a lot of trouble getting on the freeway, it's been dangerous a time or two going so slow getting on.

nevrenufhp · 04-18-2010, 02:01 PM

All the power is great, but EGT will get hot really fast. Besides the trans isn't up to the power, that already got covered. On that same line, the added rpm of the gov spring kit is your friend with that slushy trans. If you want one that can take what you throw at it, upgrade to an Allison MD3060.
In reality, you can make great power by just sliding your fuel plate forward, considering it has the Bosch P-pump, not the VE rotary pump from the older ones. If it's got the rotary pump, and with no intercooler it probably is, there's a few freebie mods to that one too. The first thing is to do the gov spring(around $20), then adjust fuel screw, and rotate the diaphram. It would be a really good idea to have an intercooler, and one from a 91-93 Dodge may just be the right fit. By all means, get a pyrometer too!

Elliot Naess · 06-04-2010, 11:52 PM

I have a concern about increasing the RPMs.

Way back decades ago when I first learned about engines, I was told not to increase the maximum RPMs on a used engine, because there will be wear-ridges around the cylinder walls (from the piston rings), and if you increase the RPMs the conecting rods will stretch just a tiny bit more than they used to (everything flexes under load -- it is ony a matter of how much) and the top rings will break against the old wear-ridges.

Thoughts? Knowledge?

dentedvw · 06-05-2010, 06:22 AM

Bugger it is my thoughts.

For all the trouble and expense one would go to in order to increase "on ramp speed", how much difference could it REALLY make. This is a seriously heavy vehicle, as many people have said the trans is not really up to the job once you start pouring more juice into it.
Besides, who is it for? I still get where I am going, and if the people behind me want to chip into a fund to get me a faster bus, I am all for it. I will put a jar on the passing side, and as the pass they can stuff it with bills with one hand, and use the other to give me the universal signal for "you suck".

I can even paste a picture of the bus I really want (a Neoplan, the one I can put motorcycles under) to help them visualize it.

Elliot Naess · 06-05-2010, 11:05 AM

The Allison MT643 is rated for 250 Horse Power, 640 Pound Feet of torque, and 73.280 Pounds of gross vehicle weight. So yes, we would not want to exceed 250 HP. Above that, you would need an HT 700-series tranny.

My only need for more power and speed is when climbing hills. Millicent does 60 MPH on level ground, with the factory governor setting, and above that fuel consumption skyrockets.

Now: Before spending money on fancy upgrades, make sure your foot feed (accelerator pedal) really opens the pump all the way to full power. On Millicent, the pedal itself was bent to where I had only about 3/4 power. I straightened it, and that was like adding an afterburner. But now it's bending again. The linkage is also worn out and very sloppy.

Also, I want to review how the return springs are mounted, to eliminate the bending and minimize wear. When I get that finalized, I'll post on the Millicent thread.

crazycal · 06-05-2010, 11:13 AM

Elliott, it's bending because you have a lead foot.

Elliot Naess · 06-05-2010, 11:56 AM

That's a good wisecrack, Cal, but the fact of the matter is quite the opposite. It is bending because excessive force must be applied to the pedal in order to bring the linkage to full power against the return springs.

So there are two problems:
Misalignment and binding in the linkage because of wear,
and unfavorable geometry of the return springs. The return spring arrangement is probably the safest for school bus service, but it is murder for us highway runners.

crazycal · 06-05-2010, 01:41 PM

A new peddle assembly shouldn't cost that much. In your travels down I5 or 99, there are a few truck parts houses. If you want the names, let me know.

Elliot Naess · 06-05-2010, 01:55 PM

Thanks, but the problem with the pedal bending will go away when I get the linkage and springs tuned up. And there is a Blue Bird dealer in Sacramento, if need be.

XE1UFO · 08-17-2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevrenufhp

In reality, you can make great power by just sliding your fuel plate forward, considering it has the Bosch P-pump, not the VE rotary pump from the older ones. If it's got the rotary pump, and with no intercooler it probably is, there's a few freebie mods to that one too. The first thing is to do the gov spring(around $20), then adjust fuel screw, and rotate the diaphram. It would be a really good idea to have an intercooler, and one from a 91-93 Dodge may just be the right fit. By all means, get a pyrometer too!

Nevereufhp (or anybody else): Any chance you could post pictures of the fuel plate and the intercooler? My turbo has two air inlets that connect to ducts on either side of the radiator. Is it intercooled? Please excuse my ignorance. How much "sliding forward" is enough?

My engine plate says "Ford Cummins 5.9L 175 HP". I would sure love some more HP for climbing our Mexican mountains! Would an injector change help, without screwing up fuel economy too badly?

By the way, mine has the 5-speed Spicer standard tranny, so I am not to concerned about hurting it. I am also considering switching to a 2-speed rear end. (Or maybe I can get lucky and find a 3-speed Brownie auxiliary transmission, like we used in the old days!)

Dr. Steve, central old Mexico

Elliot Naess · 08-17-2010, 12:29 PM

Hey XE1UFO -- how am I supposed to pronounce that name?

You do have an intercooler. But you want to look more closely at where the ducts go. The intercooler resembles a radiator. The intercooler is in front, and the radiator behind it.

nevrenufhp · 08-17-2010, 06:42 PM

Quite simply, you pull off the top cover that has 4 bolts(1 is a rounded breakoff screw).

Then, loosen the 2 screws on the fuel plate that's just under the cover. Slide it forward, but you dont have to push it all the way forward if you dont want the full power.

I slide mine ( or who ever's rig I'm working on) full forward, and use your foot to control the power and exhaust temp. With it rated at 175, you would probably gain 40-50hp and around 90-100 pounds of torque with it slid full forward.

XE1UFO · 08-20-2010, 08:21 AM

Thanks a million, Mr. Neverenoughhp!!! Wow! that doesn't look too difficult to do.

About the XE1UFO: That is my Mexican government-issued ham radio call sign, as in X-ray Echo One Uniform Foxtrot Oscar. North of the Río Bravo (Rio Grande, for you gringos). the FCC knows me as KA5SUT:Kilo Alpha Five Short Ugly Texan.

Elliot Naess · 08-20-2010, 09:09 AM

Thanks heavens! I was getting a permanent kink in my tongue trying to pronounce the call sign as one word.

headin2MT · 01-14-2011, 01:01 PM

hey fellas, I know this link hasnt been used for a bit, but could you tell me were i could find the spring kit, maybe online? I have the 96 ford amtran 5.9l turbo with the at545, ANY help would be greatly apreaciated, I feel like a rollin road hazard at 65, which is the top speed for my bus as of right now. Also the accelerator pedal is stiff as a 2x4....any suggestions?

nevrenufhp · 01-14-2011, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headin2MT

hey fellas, I know this link hasnt been used for a bit, but could you tell me were i could find the spring kit, maybe online? I have the 96 ford amtran 5.9l turbo with the at545, ANY help would be greatly apreaciated, I feel like a rollin road hazard at 65, which is the top speed for my bus as of right now. Also the accelerator pedal is stiff as a 2x4....any suggestions?

Throttle return springs, or governor springs?
My suggestion to get past 65? re-gear the rear, then hike up the power. If you go down the road at 3000rpm the engine will get horrendous mpg, and live a shorter life. The extra rpm are associated with helping accelerate, not for sustained use.
Here's a good deal on a gov spring set, the 2 cheapest places I know:
http://www.citydiesel.net/governor-spri ... h=22_26_49
or,
http://www.pdrdiesel.com/products/3000_ ... 82-35.html

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