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09-08-2018, 12:00 AM
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#1
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 442
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: Cummins ISC 260HP/660Q/MD3060 6spd
Rated Cap: 81
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Cummins Mechanical 8.3 Vs Electronic ISC 8.3
I've got a choice between a couple buses and would like some advice on which to get, the 1997 that will probably have the mechanical 8.3 or the 2000 ISC 8.3 engine. They're full size Thomas buses and Allison transmissions though I don't yet know which tranny.
I'm concerned about basically everything: fuel economy, ease of repair for me to do or cost of repair if it's beyond me. Also upgradability, reliability, power and availability of parts as they are getting to be old engines.
What do you guys think would be the better decision?
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09-08-2018, 08:14 AM
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#2
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 993
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
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The mechanical would be easier to work on. Also consider what transmission and rear axle ratio is in each bus.
Ted
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09-08-2018, 12:50 PM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Weeki Wachee, FL
Posts: 3,056
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 72
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All else being equal it's a no brainer. Mechanical engine for the win. Instead of a complex array of ECMs and sensors, a mechanical cummins can run with a single wire having power.
In trade, you lose the diagnostics features of all those sensors, which may or may not be useful. My first bus is an electronic T444E and my new bus has a mechanical 5.9.
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09-08-2018, 06:03 PM
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#4
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 442
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: Cummins ISC 260HP/660Q/MD3060 6spd
Rated Cap: 81
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any idea what's better on fuel? and upgradable?
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09-08-2018, 10:02 PM
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#5
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 993
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
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The electric may have a slight advantage on fuel economy because the injection is electronically controlled. The electronic version may be able to be reprogramed for a higher hp/torque. The mechanical pump can be adjusted for more hp/torque. Electric ISC with the CAPS pumps did have problems with pump failures. The CAPS were used until the ISC switched to common rail injection. The mechanical pump would be likely be more reliable.
Ted
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09-08-2018, 10:16 PM
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#6
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,778
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
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more power is to be had with turbo and fuel pump modifications, also so camshaft and valve springs, then in order not to blow headgaskets, something called "o ringing" the cylinder head/ engine block. Both engines can be tuned for more power. mechanical is done with parts and knowledge, the electronic, software at first, then mechanical changes. the electronic is likely to burn cleaner, but a well tuned mechanical will be very very close to the same. The additional parts in an electronic fuel system killed that for me, but I am in a unique position of starting with a bus that had no drive line to start with, and even if it did, I had already decided what engine and transmission I was going to use.
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10-21-2018, 09:48 AM
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#7
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJones
The electric may have a slight advantage on fuel economy because the injection is electronically controlled. The electronic version may be able to be reprogramed for a higher hp/torque. The mechanical pump can be adjusted for more hp/torque. Electric ISC with the CAPS pumps did have problems with pump failures. The CAPS were used until the ISC switched to common rail injection. The mechanical pump would be likely be more reliable.
Ted
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X2 on that
I love my 1994 12V 5.9L (NO computer)
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10-21-2018, 10:13 AM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Make that FAR more reliable.
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10-21-2018, 11:45 AM
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#9
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 993
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
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I've been doing some research on the early ISC CAPS injection pumps. They will last longer if a low pressure fuel pump around 15 psi is placed at the fuel tank. This pushes fuel to the CAPS pump preventing it from pulling in air if there is a leak in the fuel line. It also pushes more fuel through the CAPS pump which improves cooling of the pump. I havn't had a chance to check my bus to see if it has an additional pump but it does have a fuel filter next to the fuel tank so I'm thinking it might.
Ted
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10-21-2018, 02:08 PM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 442
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: Cummins ISC 260HP/660Q/MD3060 6spd
Rated Cap: 81
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I ended up getting a 2001 bus with the caps system so hopefully I won’t have any problems.
I asked Cummins if they could increase the power in it but after checking into it the guy said they can’t without replacing camshaft, pistons and some other things. They put some lower grade parts in the lower power engines to make them more affordable. 260 HP and 660 torque will have to do I guess.
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10-21-2018, 02:11 PM
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#11
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 442
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: Cummins ISC 260HP/660Q/MD3060 6spd
Rated Cap: 81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJones
I've been doing some research on the early ISC CAPS injection pumps. They will last longer if a low pressure fuel pump around 15 psi is placed at the fuel tank. This pushes fuel to the CAPS pump preventing it from pulling in air if there is a leak in the fuel line. It also pushes more fuel through the CAPS pump which improves cooling of the pump. I havn't had a chance to check my bus to see if it has an additional pump but it does have a fuel filter next to the fuel tank so I'm thinking it might.
Ted
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That’s interesting. I’ll have to read more about this too. Do you have any links Ted?
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10-21-2018, 06:33 PM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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If it is a 5.9 that is nonsense. You can add nearly 50 hp with a screwdriver and no parts on a 4BT. More on a six. Check out the many Cummins forums (such as 4BTswaps.com). Between the smoke screw and timing you can do a surprising upgrade and often pick up a few mpg's in the process.
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10-21-2018, 06:34 PM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
If it is a 5.9 that is nonsense. You can add nearly 50 hp with a screwdriver and no parts on a 4BT. More on a six. Check out the many Cummins forums (such as 4BTswaps.com). Between the smoke screw and timing you can do a surprising upgrade and often pick up a few mpg's in the process.
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See thread title.
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10-21-2018, 09:59 PM
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#14
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 993
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bon Voyage
That’s interesting. I’ll have to read more about this too. Do you have any links Ted?
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Here is a thread discussimg the problem.
Repeating CAPS Failures - Need Help - iRV2 Forums
Ted
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