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Old 10-24-2015, 05:16 PM   #11
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 34
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: MPV Pusher
Engine: 8.3 Cummins Mechanical
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Here is my one issue with all this.... I know the Control Hot wire to the Relay is Run thru a Sender unit off the Motor, It is wire number 193 in the Engine harness. This Wire goes to TB ( terminal bus ) and ties to the wire number 72 on the control side of the relay for the HOLD wire on the Fuel Shut off Solenoid.

My Issue is if I bypass...( easy to do ) what sender unit am I bypassing, and What happens when it totally fails....As right now it is Only randomly dropping off for a moment... Am I losing Oil pressure, or Water Temp action...? I will be driving this Bus Coast to coast once a Month min.....And I do not want to start by passing and Jerry rigging it right out of the gate....I would Much Prefer to do it right the first time....

I guess I am Stuck till Monday When I can call Thomas up and get a Wiring diagram for this Age of Bus....??
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Old 10-25-2015, 11:50 AM   #12
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Rated Cap: 72
Just did a google search and they have everything you are likely to need to know for the 8.3's
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:29 PM   #13
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Who has everything I need to know..?

Link..? ya lost me.....??
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Old 10-25-2015, 02:04 PM   #14
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just type in fuel shutoff solenoid in a search engine and you will find pages about your problem and drawings also.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:54 AM   #15
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Location: Oregon
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Update.

BlackJohn.....I did a searh as you suggested...I came up with nothing I didn't already have....

I did Get Some better Info out of Thomas. Their Tech support guys are A-Ok in my book.

So I have 3 Constant Duty Solenoids on my Bus...One in the Rear 150 Amp, 2 up front.
After replacing all 3 Batteries, and Cleaning everything I could Find to Clean, I decided to Pull and Clean all contacts on the Duty Solenoids, as they provide positive power to most everything on the Bus inside and out. When I went to break the Nuts loose One completely crumbled in my hands....the other was complete, but the Black Plastic was cracked 2 directions. So I think..Ah haaaa.....I finally found my issue.... I replaced all 3 of them. Fired the Bus up, it ran for 3 hrs With no Failures....then boom...random, just drops and Dies again. FUTHER MUCKER PUCKER TRUCKER......

So I get back on the phone with Thomas Tech support, and We go over everything again....

The only thing I have not done to this Point is Pull the Entire front panel apart, and Clean every single Fuse and Contact location....

I have Found that My Root Problem is that i am Loosing Voltage /amperage when I start to run Any Load....ie: Lights, Heater fans, interior lights.

It is Very Random though... One time All things on Full Load no fall off die...the next time, just lights on, it dies.
next time lights, and one fan...it dies.

Then All loaded no issue, rev motor to say 1800 rpm..back to idle...it dies.

Here is a list of things I have done to this point to try and Kill the Drain...

New Batteries X 3
Tested Alternator...it tests Loaded good....at 150 Amps
New Shut off Solenoid.
New Fuel solenoid Relay
New Constant duty Solenoids X 3
Cleaned all wires at the Starter,
Cleaned all Hot wires and grounds at the Rear Panel box
Cleaned the Duty Solenoid bases , and Power bars in the Front panel by drivers window.


I have not replaced the Fuse breaker( thermo breaker ) units associated with the Fuel shut off circuit...I am going to do that today with Regular fuses. Thomas Bus Tech support suggested I do that , so I am about to go try and Test that theory out....

If any of you guys have any other suggestions, I am All ears.....

I know I can Bypass everything and It will run, issue is , the Voltage / amp drain is still there... So If I am Trvelling across a Remote Pass somewhere at midnight, and the Bus Losses Power completely, I am FUBAR... I need to get to the Bottom of this Drain issue, before I can Commit to Open Road Travel.....

Thanks in advance,
A frustrated John in Oregon.
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:40 AM   #16
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I'm sure you've checked all of the little things but here are 2 I didn't see mentioned:

My buddy's bus would't start due to the rear engine door not being fully closed. There's a switch in there that completes the circuit.

My bus wouldn't start because the rear window switch wouldn't register as closed.

My biggest electrical fault was that the ground wire from the battery to ... everywhere it went, was corroded, inhibiting full power from the alternator.

Both buses are Thomas rear engine, 2001, 2002, one Cummins, one Caterpillar.
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Old 11-05-2015, 01:12 PM   #17
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 34
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: MPV Pusher
Engine: 8.3 Cummins Mechanical
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RHOMBUS.....

Thanks....I have verified all those Are in Order...Some have been Deleted Prior to Me...also, This Bus being a 1997 Does not have Rear Engine Door Buzzer....I can Run it with Door open and up with no issues....

It fires Every time With no issue...like Turn Key on, count to 5 letting the Dash lights and Systems Check, then One or 2 Revolutions and Fire....

Firing up has Not been an Issue ever....its the Fuel shut off Letting go of the HOLD....and Killing the motor once loaded.

But again, thanks for the Thought....
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:00 PM   #18
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
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Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
Thanks for the update John. Puzzling for sure but...here is what I did when I got my bus with the old cat 3116 FE. I decided it wasn't worth converting if the electrical systems weren't in top notch shape. The engine ran great and still does. Having worked around these types of relays, solenoids and such all my life I decided to remove any and all panels on the front dash and gain access to most everything. What a shock! There was dust bunnies and so much debris in there it's a wonder there was never a fire. This is all due to the air currents flowing in back of the panels and accumulating on everything electrical. So with a paint brush and vacuum cleaner I did what was necessary. Cleaned it all up good so I could see everything going on. Lots of black too from diesel fumes migrate into these areas.
I decided to clean all connections one at a time as best as I could and get new shine on all contact areas electrically. What I couldn't see right away was corrosion on the blocks that the fuses and relays plug into so apart they came too. if I hadn't done all this finicky cleaning I would be having major problems today. As it is everything is as good as new behind the dash panels.
Even the heavy fuses and relay blades had a certain film build up over the years that impedes good continuity in a circuit. Time consuming yes but then you aren't guessing anymore as to what is a good connection.
Ok so the fuel solenoid has the two coils in it as we discussed. One works initially in the start up parameters according to what your bus calls for. It works at a higher current until such time as oil pressure and engine temps are reached or a failure in those systems is found to be which then shuts the fuel off, saving your engine and your ass. This is why this is crucial to have working properly. So, when oil press is fine and operating temp is reached, the second coil in the fuel solenoid is energized at a much lower current than the startup coil of the fuel solenoid. The bus should operate until you shut down yourself then.
I suggest you undo the two wire connections at the fuel solenoid and interchange them and give that a try.
To try and rig your bus so it runs isn't the way to go as you are travelling cross country. This can be made to run properly.
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