Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-18-2017, 11:10 PM   #1
Almost There
 
natedlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 95
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5,9 12V
Rated Cap: 24 seats, 3 wheelchairs
How to source a transmission upgrade

What is needed to source a transmission upgrade? My mechanic says he needs the serial for the transmission I want. I currently have 1998 5.9 12c w/ AT545. When I upgrade I want an MT643. I found this one on Craigslist. I've read the 545/643 is an easy swap - but what else do I need to know? https://baltimore.craigslist.org/pts...309146840.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

natedlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 11:50 PM   #2
Traveling
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,573
Year: 2003
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: '00
Says out of pusher- Might be different.
Rusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 04:34 PM   #3
Almost There
 
natedlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 95
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5,9 12V
Rated Cap: 24 seats, 3 wheelchairs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Says out of pusher- Might be different.


Excellent point. But still how do I properly source the right one? Serial?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
natedlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 05:19 PM   #4
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Kansas
Posts: 224
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: 8.3 Cummins, 643
Pusher Should be the same transmission... the difference is in the rear axle. The engine and tranny turn the same way in my pusher at least.

The serial number is in the pictures on craigslist I would give your mechanic that number and the one from your transmission and see what he comes up with if your having him do the swap. I will tell you the housing is different on a 545 and 643 among other things

This is informative

https://www.google.com/amp/s/tatumsk...son-mt643/amp/
Jacob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 08:12 PM   #5
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Port angeles, Wa
Posts: 317
Year: 90
Coachwork: bluebird conventional
Chassis: international
Engine: dt466
Rated Cap: 72
With any mt643, there are a few things you need to consider. The main trans is the same, the valve body , torque converter, and governor are different between applications. Just installing the trans from some other rig can get you bad shift points, over or under revving and bad power and mileage. The best thing to do is get a trans from a rig like yours with the same engine and gearing.

As for swapping, you need a #2 flywheel housing (which you may allready have) flywheel and flexplate to fit. The cooler lines will be different. You will also need the driveshaft modified to fit or get one from the other bus.

I,m in the process of going from a manual to an mt643, It took a while to find a valve body for my application.
bluebird90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 08:24 AM   #6
Bus Nut
 
BowserJournal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Ridge Manor, FL
Posts: 311
Year: 1993
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: Ford B600
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 20 person
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebird90 View Post
With any mt643, there are a few things you need to consider. The main trans is the same, the valve body , torque converter, and governor are different between applications. Just installing the trans from some other rig can get you bad shift points, over or under revving and bad power and mileage. The best thing to do is get a trans from a rig like yours with the same engine and gearing.

As for swapping, you need a #2 flywheel housing (which you may allready have) flywheel and flexplate to fit. The cooler lines will be different. You will also need the driveshaft modified to fit or get one from the other bus.

I,m in the process of going from a manual to an mt643, It took a while to find a valve body for my application.
I had thought about changing our tranny too. I had no idea that there were so many considerations. I thought it was just a drop and swap kind of thing. I may just end up keeping mine.
__________________
"Living Our Own Story"
The Bowser Journal
Watch our adventures by subscribing...
Youtube - bit.ly/TheBowserJournal
BowserJournal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 12:56 PM   #7
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,762
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
545 to 643 isn't too hard, and its a worthwhile upgrade if/when the 545 fails.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2017, 07:29 PM   #8
Bus Nut
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 651
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
I found just recently an attachment set up to add to my old 3-speed truck tranny to give it overdrive with nothing more than shortening the drive shaft.
And started wondering if they have one for the 545?
It was something like gearbox guys but i will have to find the sight again?
Jolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 01:44 PM   #9
Almost There
 
natedlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 95
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5,9 12V
Rated Cap: 24 seats, 3 wheelchairs
So I found a used MT643 with only 41k miles not far from me -- for $500! Owner says it was pulled from a '98 bus and was connected to a 5.9 12v - just like my bus.

Let's say this is actually in good shape. What are some maintenance things I should do, regardless, before throwing it under my bus? I will have a mechanic do this, but I want a good understanding before I approach someone about it. Is there some measure of "refurbishing" that is always recommended?
natedlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 03:34 PM   #10
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
If it is in working order that is a deal. But make sure you get the shifter, all harnesses, any controllers and dipstick with it. They can add up top much more than the $500 in a heartbeat.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 03:53 PM   #11
Almost There
 
natedlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 95
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5,9 12V
Rated Cap: 24 seats, 3 wheelchairs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
If it is in working order that is a deal. But make sure you get the shifter, all harnesses, any controllers and dipstick with it. They can add up top much more than the $500 in a heartbeat.
Awesome thanks - I wouldn't have known to ask about those.

Turns out the seller is a diesel mechanic @ Cummins and is being quite helpful answering all of my questions. He says it's in great condition and worked perfectly when it was taken out of a mobile art museum that would drive around and visit schools.

What's the best way for a layman like myself to determine if I have an SAE2 or SAE3 bell housing?
natedlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 03:56 PM   #12
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
I believe all the Cummins 5.9's (as well as 4BT's) are all SAE 3 but you mechanic friend can tell you for sure.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 03:58 PM   #13
Almost There
 
natedlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 95
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5,9 12V
Rated Cap: 24 seats, 3 wheelchairs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
I believe all the Cummins 5.9's (as well as 4BT's) are all SAE 3 but you mechanic friend can tell you for sure.
Yeah he's saying it most likely is SAE 3, but sometimes they can be different. When it's done raining I'll try to figure out of there's an adapter or not.

Cool thanks for your help!
natedlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 08:43 AM   #14
Almost There
 
natedlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 95
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5,9 12V
Rated Cap: 24 seats, 3 wheelchairs
This has turned into a much bigger ordeal than expected. :/ The MT643 in fact does not fit my flywheel so the shop has been trying to source parts and both Cummins and Allison have been giving them the runaround. Other issues are less problematic, but the MT643 has a mechanical speedometer and my AT545 has an electric one, so they need to convert it. Also something I never considered is that the MT643 requires beefier driveshaft ujoints than the 545. So they are recommending replacing the rear diff connector with a larger one, so that has to be dealt with as well.

Anyway - it's been weeks and little progress. The shop that has it is a charter bus company here in MD.
natedlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 10:13 AM   #15
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,707
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
talk to the folks at Custom Automatic Conversions (formerly cummins allison conversions).. and see if they can help wioth getting the corrdect part numbers for the adapters.

as for the driveshaft yolks and what not.. sure th3 643 might want them if you were running it behind a super powerful engine, but they arent required.. shortening the driveshaft is required and any shop can do that..

John bloem swapped a 545 for a 643 (yes on a navistar not a cummins) but the rear part didnt require alterations for the driveline / rear end.

speedometer, if the 643 you have has a cable only outpuit connection then you can get a cable to electronic converter device... dakota digital makes them.. it screws onto the cable output of a trans and converts it to electronic pulses.. some of them are programmable, you are shooting for 16 puklses per driveshaft rotation to match the 545..

you *MAY* be able to unscrew the cable speed sensor from the 643 and insert the 545 sensor and have it pick up the pulses as the gear goes bythe sensor.. the MT643 was also designed at 16 pulses per driveshaft rev..
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 10:15 AM   #16
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,762
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
talk to the folks at Custom Automatic Conversions (formerly cummins allison conversions).. and see if they can help wioth getting the corrdect part numbers for the adapters.

as for the driveshaft yolks and what not.. sure th3 643 might want them if you were running it behind a super powerful engine, but they arent required.. shortening the driveshaft is required and any shop can do that..

John bloem swapped a 545 for a 643 (yes on a navistar not a cummins) but the rear part didnt require alterations for the driveline / rear end.

speedometer, if the 643 you have has a cable only outpuit connection then you can get a cable to electronic converter device... dakota digital makes them.. it screws onto the cable output of a trans and converts it to electronic pulses.. some of them are programmable, you are shooting for 16 puklses per driveshaft rotation to match the 545..

you *MAY* be able to unscrew the cable speed sensor from the 643 and insert the 545 sensor and have it pick up the pulses as the gear goes bythe sensor.. the MT643 was also designed at 16 pulses per driveshaft rev..
-Christopher
Listen to this guy, he's a GENIUS!!
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 10:50 AM   #17
Almost There
 
natedlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 95
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5,9 12V
Rated Cap: 24 seats, 3 wheelchairs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
talk to the folks at Custom Automatic Conversions (formerly cummins allison conversions).. and see if they can help wioth getting the corrdect part numbers for the adapters.

as for the driveshaft yolks and what not.. sure th3 643 might want them if you were running it behind a super powerful engine, but they arent required.. shortening the driveshaft is required and any shop can do that..

John bloem swapped a 545 for a 643 (yes on a navistar not a cummins) but the rear part didnt require alterations for the driveline / rear end.

speedometer, if the 643 you have has a cable only outpuit connection then you can get a cable to electronic converter device... dakota digital makes them.. it screws onto the cable output of a trans and converts it to electronic pulses.. some of them are programmable, you are shooting for 16 puklses per driveshaft rotation to match the 545..

you *MAY* be able to unscrew the cable speed sensor from the 643 and insert the 545 sensor and have it pick up the pulses as the gear goes bythe sensor.. the MT643 was also designed at 16 pulses per driveshaft rev..
-Christopher
Thanks a ton! I will be passing this along to them!!
natedlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2018, 02:24 PM   #18
Almost There
 
natedlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 95
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins 5,9 12V
Rated Cap: 24 seats, 3 wheelchairs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
talk to the folks at Custom Automatic Conversions (formerly cummins allison conversions).. and see if they can help wioth getting the corrdect part numbers for the adapters.

as for the driveshaft yolks and what not.. sure th3 643 might want them if you were running it behind a super powerful engine, but they arent required.. shortening the driveshaft is required and any shop can do that..

John bloem swapped a 545 for a 643 (yes on a navistar not a cummins) but the rear part didnt require alterations for the driveline / rear end.

speedometer, if the 643 you have has a cable only outpuit connection then you can get a cable to electronic converter device... dakota digital makes them.. it screws onto the cable output of a trans and converts it to electronic pulses.. some of them are programmable, you are shooting for 16 puklses per driveshaft rotation to match the 545..

you *MAY* be able to unscrew the cable speed sensor from the 643 and insert the 545 sensor and have it pick up the pulses as the gear goes bythe sensor.. the MT643 was also designed at 16 pulses per driveshaft rev..
-Christopher
I talked with KC and she had fond things to say about you. She also said this is a tough conversion b/c she has no idea where to source an adapter plate -- and she may have convinced me to go the route of a 1000HS in the process of explaining the benefits of the better transmission. Awesome lady -- great advice -- now I'm freaking out about what makes the most sense. I can't seem to find a solid lead on an adapter plate for this, so maybe I need to scrap the 643 idea and get the better trans. Any thoughts?
natedlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2018, 09:29 PM   #19
Bus Crazy
 
turf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,348
Year: 1993
Coachwork: bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins, Allison AT1545
Rated Cap: 2
having swapped out a 545 myself (no more speedo), i don't think i'd go thru the hassle again for another 4 speed. i'd want at least 1 overdrive.

if i were to start over, instead of swapping transmissions, i'd invest in a 4.10 ring gear for the pumpkin.
__________________
.
Turfmobile Build Thread
turf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2018, 09:53 PM   #20
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,762
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf View Post
having swapped out a 545 myself (no more speedo), i don't think i'd go thru the hassle again for another 4 speed. i'd want at least 1 overdrive.

if i were to start over, instead of swapping transmissions, i'd invest in a 4.10 ring gear for the pumpkin.
My 98 shorty had a 444e and 545 with 4.10 rear.
the thing would do 70+ but the trans puts a TON of heat into the cooling system and it really would have been better off with lower gears or a trans with lockup tc.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.