I can't figure out what Starter I need. (1991 Thomas)

[cadillackid]

if the bbus has a 100 volt plug hanging out of the back of the bus near the engine, that is the heater..
-Christopher

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by AWebb3701

Ok, so after reading all those I have a few clarifications:

I'm in California, near San Francisco. It doesn't generally get below freezing (except for tonight apparently it's supposed to )

The gas pedal is COMPLETELY unusable during warmup, as some sort of safety feature (probably to keep you from moving before the air brakes are ready). Pressing the pedal offers no resistance at all.

Proably air throttle like I have, I need to get around 90 psi before it works, Where in the Bay Area? I"m in Vacaville.

[Stu & Filo. T]

Also I know some people might have a problem with this idea but if it's turn over for a sec you might think of a quick shot of starting fluid ( At your own risk) I've been told that if you have grid or manifold heaters it could go boom, I used it on my 8.3 & worked ok just don't load it up.

[AWebb3701]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

if the bbus has a 100 volt plug hanging out of the back of the bus near the engine, that is the heater..
-Christopher

Correction, it has a SOCKET, not a plug.

Where in the Bay Area? I"m in Vacaville.

Martinez

[AlleyCat67]

If it has a place to connect a cord then there's already a heater in place, you just have to get power to it. Mine has a male 110 connector under a cover, so I just need to plug in a female extension cord end to it and plug the other end into a socket. Problem is, no electricity nearby where my bus is parked so I would have to get a generator and plug it into that.

[Rameses]

Originally Posted by AWebb3701

The gas pedal is COMPLETELY unusable during warmup, as some sort of safety feature (probably to keep you from moving before the air brakes are ready).

The air brakes do that on their own.


Also, even though it looks like the problem isn't your starter, still go ahead and post a picture of the engine. I'm still curious what it is, and it'll be worthwhile for you to know what it is for future reference.


The only thing I have to add is that I second the suggestion to shoot some ether in it. It sounds like you had somebody there to turn the key for you while you were back by the engine observing. If you can get them to help again, have them run the key, and spray some ether (same thing as "starting fluid", comes in an aerosol can) into the intake while the engine is turning over. If it fires on the ether, there's a good chance your problem is fuel related.

Definitely do whatever you need to in order to ensure that the starter is receiving adequate juice to crank the engine though. Charge the batteries, replace them, hook up jumper cables, check connections, whatever it takes. If it's cranking slow, there's no real point in trying to troubleshoot other elements.

[Tango]

If a 110 socket then it either has a block heater (electrically warms the water in the jacket)...or someone installed shore power going to something. If a block heater, you will see a power cord going into the side of the block somewhere.

[AWebb3701]

Also, even though it looks like the problem isn't your starter, still go ahead and post a picture of the engine. I'm still curious what it is, and it'll be worthwhile for you to know what it is for future reference.

Knowing now that it's safe to hold the key turned for extended periods, I've been able to get it to start up reliably. The new process:

1. Alternate holding the key turned (15-30 seconds) and letting it sit (30 seconds to a minute) until it turns over (usually takes 2-3 tries to finally get it during this step)
   
2. Wait for it to reach a stable idle. It'll usually die once during this step, but it can be turned right back on again.
   
3. Once a stable idle is reached, I give it another minute or two, then drive it around the block to make sure everything is fine (I live at the bottom of a hill, so this means accelerating up a hill then braking down it. Good test)

Now that it turns over, I can get it to my appointment this tuesday, where a professional will be able to answer all the questions I might have. So, I'm asking here: What should I find out about this thing? I don't know WHAT I don't know.

[Rameses]

That's definitely a 5.9, and from what I can see in that picture it looks like a 12 valve.

As far as what to ask at the mechanic's, I'd say have them cold start it and see what their impression is of why it doesn't want to fire up easily.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Originally Posted by AWebb3701

Knowing now that it's safe to hold the key turned for extended periods, I've been able to get it to start up reliably. The new process:

1. Alternate holding the key turned (15-30 seconds) and letting it sit (30 seconds to a minute) until it turns over (usually takes 2-3 tries to finally get it during this step)
2. Wait for it to reach a stable idle. It'll usually die once during this step, but it can be turned right back on again.
3. Once a stable idle is reached, I give it another minute or two, then drive it around the block to make sure everything is fine (I live at the bottom of a hill, so this means accelerating up a hill then braking down it. Good test)

Now that it turns over, I can get it to my appointment this Tuesday, where a professional will be able to answer all the questions I might have. So, I'm asking here: What should I find out about this thing? I don't know WHAT I don't know.

Some (if not all) of the 5.9's have a grid heater in the intake system, it performs the function that glow plugs do in other engines (not all diesels have either one). If this heater isn't working, it will often lead to hard starting and rough idling until it warms up a little bit.

"Testing" the brakes by going down a hill may seem like a good idea ... until they fail the test. Then you're stuck in a large heavy bus with no way to stop (safely) going down hill. This could get very ugly very quickly.

Try to find out what belts and fuel filters it uses, buy spares to keep on hand at all times. Fuel filters should be changed at *LEAST* every other oil change (and usually every oil change, or 10K - 20K miles, or thereabouts). One way you'll know the fuel filters are beyond due for changing is you'll have plenty of power on flat land, but none to climb hills. Some filters have clear plastic bowls - when these are "full", so is the filter. Metal filters cannot be seen inside. Knowing how to change these will save you a lot of grief and expense on the side of the road.

Get the brakes checked and adjusted (if necessary). Most buses use relatively common brake shoes (air brakes) or pads (hydraulic brakes), so finding replacements shouldn't be difficult. The parking brake should hold it in place even on a hill (I admit mine doesn't, which will be replaced before I do much driving with it).

See if you can determine the engine's oil and coolant capacity (which may very well be measured in *GALLONS* instead of quarts). I would not be surprised to see a 5.9 hold 4 gallons or more of oil, and 6 or more gallons of coolant. (I drive big trucks and many of these engines hold 40+ quarts of oil ... yes, over 10 gallons. Many hold 8-10 gallons of coolant as well). When you check the oil, you'll learn whether the dipstick indicates "a quart low" or "A gallon low".