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Old 09-07-2019, 08:45 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
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No Start - Cummins 8.3L

I am seeking some diagnostic help. So, as it seems to be with quite a few of us, I am not a mechanic. That said, I will likely get things wrong in the description of this problem but I will do my best to convey it accurately and completely. I appreciate anything you all can do to help.



Here is my problem in a nutshell... My engine started with no issues one month ago. Now it will crank just fine but fails to start. It does not sputter, smoke or seem to try to start. There is no smoke or diesel smell during the start attempts. There is fuel in the tank.


The details... 2005 BB AA RE, straight six 8.3L Cummins ISC. I do not know much more about the engine but would like to. If anyone can help me locate the serial number that would be very helpful.



One month ago... I start the bus once a month and run it for 30-45 minutes (either driving around town or idling). I attempted to start last month and found the starting batteries were at their end (I knew this was coming as I had to jump start it the month before). I was not able to jump start it this month. I replaced the batteries (new) and started the bus up with no issues. I ran the motor for about 45 minutes. I noticed at some point during that 45 minutes that the "service engine soon" light came on. No other issues, it ran perfectly as far as I could tell. After that 45 minute run I turned off the motor and disconnected the positive side of the batteries to store for the month.


Yesterday... I reconnected the positive side of the batteries and attempted to start for my monthly run. The motor cranks fine (very strong) but does not start. There is no smoke or smell during the start attempts. I noticed that the fuel gauge moves from below empty to about 1/8 when I turn the ignition on. Other than the "service engine soon" light everything else seems normal.


Here is what I have tried so far... First I researched the issue here, on other internet resources and I called an out of town friend who is a retired diesel mechanic. Although I do not believe that it ran out of fuel I added 10 gallons of diesel fuel to the tank (which puts the gauge over 1/4). I understand that gauges can be inaccurate but mine seems to be at least somewhat functional. I have cycled the injector pump several times by turning the ignition on. I can hear the pump come on and run for about 20-30 seconds and then it shuts off. I have fully charged the batteries and applied a jump box. I tried to hear/feel a click coming from what I believe is the fuel shutoff solenoid. I could not perceive any click or apparent movement on ignition/start.



The research I have done leads me to believe that it is most likely the fuel shutoff solenoid and/or the relay for the fuel shutoff solenoid. It could also be damage from squirrels. It could be that I missed a wire when installing the new batteries. It could be related to the "service engine soon" light. It could be something else entirely. I have checked all of these things to the best of my ability.


Although I do not believe the fuel system has "lost it's prime" bleeding the injectors is on my "try this" list. I will try that when I can enlist a second set of hands.


I think where I need the most help is on the fuel shutoff solenoid and relay. I would like to test/troubleshoot them but I cannot locate either for sure. I think my fuel shutoff solenoid is attached to the injector pump but it is not like most people describe it. People describe an external plunger that goes in and out and can be 'rigged' with a tie strap. It could be that mine is an internal type. Also I have read that Cummins did away with the solenoid and relay in 2004 and they have the ECM control the injectors to shut off fuel.


I will attempt to attach pictures of what I believe is the injector pump and fuel shutoff solenoid.


Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions you can offer!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Injector pump.jpg (134.3 KB, 15 views)
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Old 09-07-2019, 08:51 PM   #2
Skoolie
 
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Great job description the situation. I too would move to priming g the fuel system before I start taking things apart or replacing parts.
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Old 09-07-2019, 09:22 PM   #3
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You could have leak in the fuel line, plugged filter or bad priming pump. There should be a return line coming back from the pump. If you have fuel at the return line when the electric priming pump is running then at least you know the fuel system is good to there. I think the return line goes back into the tank at the fuel fill. I can check mine tomorrow and see what it does.

Ted
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Old 09-08-2019, 03:55 PM   #4
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolomonEagle View Post
Great job description the situation. I too would move to priming g the fuel system before I start taking things apart or replacing parts.

Thanks. That is definitely on my "next thing to try" list!
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Old 09-08-2019, 03:58 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJones View Post
You could have leak in the fuel line, plugged filter or bad priming pump. There should be a return line coming back from the pump. If you have fuel at the return line when the electric priming pump is running then at least you know the fuel system is good to there. I think the return line goes back into the tank at the fuel fill. I can check mine tomorrow and see what it does.

Ted

Thanks. I'll look in to that as a possibility also. Let me know what you find out.
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Old 09-08-2019, 04:05 PM   #6
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Can anyone check the photo from the original post and confirm or deny the identification of the fuel shutoff solenoid and the injector pump? I think I have them identified correctly but I am not certain. I don't want to pull that 'solenoid' out to find out it is not the solenoid and then find that I have just created another problem.


Also, can anyone confirm or deny that my engine should have a fuel shutoff solenoid? I am trying to get specs from quickserv but I do not have my ESN yet. I found out generally where to look to find it but I am at work all day today so hopefully I'll be able to find it when I get home.


Thanks!
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:27 PM   #7
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadWolf View Post
Can anyone check the photo from the original post and confirm or deny the identification of the fuel shutoff solenoid and the injector pump? I think I have them identified correctly but I am not certain. I don't want to pull that 'solenoid' out to find out it is not the solenoid and then find that I have just created another problem.


Also, can anyone confirm or deny that my engine should have a fuel shutoff solenoid? I am trying to get specs from quickserv but I do not have my ESN yet. I found out generally where to look to find it but I am at work all day today so hopefully I'll be able to find it when I get home.


Thanks!
After looking at my bus today I realized your running a different fuel system. With your bus being newer you likely have a common rail system. I wouldn't take anything apart unless you are sure of what it is. These systems run very high fuel pressures. There should be a port for a fuel pressure gauge or bleeder somewhere.

Here is video that shows operation and diagnostics.

https://youtu.be/r7sL8prGn0U

Ted
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Old 09-09-2019, 01:18 PM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJones View Post
After looking at my bus today I realized your running a different fuel system. With your bus being newer you likely have a common rail system. I wouldn't take anything apart unless you are sure of what it is. These systems run very high fuel pressures. There should be a port for a fuel pressure gauge or bleeder somewhere.

Here is video that shows operation and diagnostics.

https://youtu.be/r7sL8prGn0U

Ted
VERY helpful video! Thank you. That appears to be the exact system that I have and it explains a lot.

Thanks again!
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:30 PM   #9
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Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadWolf View Post
VERY helpful video! Thank you. That appears to be the exact system that I have and it explains a lot.

Thanks again!
Your welcome. Hope you can find the problem.

Ted
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