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Old 09-06-2016, 12:27 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T View Post
Ok, explain to me how, every time i've used it i only used a quick maybe half second shot, i'm not talking spraying half a can in there, I've had to use it on my 8.3 a few time & growing upon the farm when it was below zero we always threw a guick shot into the intake while turning them over. Plus I never spray then go turn over giving it a chance to sit I always start turning it over then spray, You may be right, Cummins may have a AD note on that I just personally haven't read or heard it before.
Well, the 5.9 uses a small heater grid in the intake as opposed to glow plugs. That alone could cause the starting fluid to ignite while still in the intake system.

Also, it's impossible for a manufacturer to control how much starting fluid someone uses. The 5.9 is not exactly a high displacement engine. A "Quick shot" on an 8.3 or larger engine may be fine, on a 5.9 it might be enough to blow the head off of it. Remember, these engines have pretty high compression ratios, and diesel fuel is injected at a measured rate for a controlled burn. Starting fluid will just explode in the cylinder. Also, there is no throttling, even if it didn't ruin the engines or catch fire, once the engine starts, it could over rev for a few seconds (with low or no oil pressure at that) until the starting fluid burns off.

Long story short, Cummins engineers say not to do it, and they know the engine better than I do. Do what you will, but if something bad happens, you can't honestly say you weren't warned.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:55 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
Well, the 5.9 uses a small heater grid in the intake as opposed to glow plugs. That alone could cause the starting fluid to ignite while still in the intake system.

Also, it's impossible for a manufacturer to control how much starting fluid someone uses. The 5.9 is not exactly a high displacement engine. A "Quick shot" on an 8.3 or larger engine may be fine, on a 5.9 it might be enough to blow the head off of it. Remember, these engines have pretty high compression ratios, and diesel fuel is injected at a measured rate for a controlled burn. Starting fluid will just explode in the cylinder. Also, there is no throttling, even if it didn't ruin the engines or catch fire, once the engine starts, it could over rev for a few seconds (with low or no oil pressure at that) until the starting fluid burns off.

Long story short, Cummins engineers say not to do it, and they know the engine better than I do. Do what you will, but if something bad happens, you can't honestly say you weren't warned.
Yes i can understand Engineers saying don't do it to release themselves of liability
I can also see how someone loading up the intake with a can full & it going BOOM, it's like anything else requiring common sense which is hard to find anymore. Kinda like the guy who's decides to cut into their gas line & first thing they do is light a cigarette
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:57 PM   #163
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a little PB blaster or WD40 sprayed in (not a lot).. will also fire over easier than diesel fuel but not as quickly as ether... kind of a middle ground.

-Christopher
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Old 09-06-2016, 01:15 PM   #164
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been reading a good deal about these topics, and most of it is reflected here, good to know I have so many resources whenever I feel I have reached the end - just knowing WHAT to look for is such a HUGE help.

this is all great info
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Old 09-17-2016, 10:35 AM   #165
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quick update:
been parked in Montrose for 3 days, as I had no problem cranking at lower altitudes, I began to suspect 10k feet was the issue. Since I could not get the concern out of my mind since leaving Grand Mesa (hard, smoky start at 10k feet), decided to crank it for giggles this morning - single bump, cranks right up with no smoke!!!

Looks like I can climb over 10k passes but need to camp at lower elevations?

Now I can go have fun!!!
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Old 09-17-2016, 10:43 AM   #166
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That's great news!
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Old 09-17-2016, 11:27 AM   #167
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Just chatted with someone who had similar high altitude starting issues. He made a suggestion that might help since your engine is not computer controlled. His was a turboed 3208 Cat with an intake heater instead of glow plugs similar to what I believe you mentioned your rig had.

His fix was to cycle the key three times back to back without starting which will raise the intake temp up to max...then crank it.

He said it helped him in spite of not really making any sense. The real problem, according to him, is that at high elevations the air is simply less dense. And since diesels rely on pressure to ignite the mix, starting with less pressure means there will be less on the power stroke. He did say that it was also very like a symptom of tired rings as they would contribute greatly to lower pressure which would be much more of an issue at high altitudes.

Don't know if this helps any, but there it is.
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Old 09-17-2016, 12:42 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
Just chatted with someone who had similar high altitude starting issues. He made a suggestion that might help since your engine is not computer controlled. His was a turboed 3208 Cat with an intake heater instead of glow plugs similar to what I believe you mentioned your rig had.

His fix was to cycle the key three times back to back without starting which will raise the intake temp up to max...then crank it.

He said it helped him in spite of not really making any sense. The real problem, according to him, is that at high elevations the air is simply less dense. And since diesels rely on pressure to ignite the mix, starting with less pressure means there will be less on the power stroke. He did say that it was also very like a symptom of tired rings as they would contribute greatly to lower pressure which would be much more of an issue at high altitudes.

Don't know if this helps any, but there it is.
Funny I did cycle more than six times on Grand Mesa and that failed to provide any help and I really like that idea before I tried it damn it. I am convinced it is probably a ring issue except it never smokes at low altitude or at least at lower altitude so that is troubling also. All I know at this point is that I will try to stay at 6000 feet or below and keep pushing this bus around the country till it explodes into a mushroom cloud
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Old 09-17-2016, 11:20 PM   #169
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My bus is equipped with a flame starting system which ignites a
small amount of fuel in the intake to bring up the air temp for
cold starts. Therefore I will forgo any application of starting
fluids when cold starting my 8.3L Cummins. Can't find any info
on the system other a mention in the bus manual and a sticker
on the intake air tube.
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Old 09-17-2016, 11:56 PM   #170
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I'm needing to locate liquid ether, I guess.


Oh great.... Probably gonna need a prescription

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Diethyl ether, more commonly known as ether, is a common solvent which has found use as a recreational drug due to its dissociative and euphoric effects, quick onset of effects and its short-lived nature. It can be psychologically addictive. Aside from its volatility and flammable nature, diethyl ether can cause nausea, toxicity to the organs, and death, which is why contemporary anasthetics are used instead of ether.
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