Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-18-2016, 12:06 AM   #171
Bus Crazy
 
milkmania's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,131
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
Pretty good info here... For those so inclined to use starting fluid at higher altitudes
Excerpt:
Quote:
There are several variables that influence the ability of a diesel engine to start. When diesel equipment is maintained in proper mechanical condition, the most influential outside sources that affect the engine's start ability are:
1. The temperature of the engine.
2. The cetane rating of the diesel fuel. 3. The atmospheric pressure.
https://www.koldban.com/v/vspfiles/a...nts/131087.pdf
__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
milkmania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 12:17 AM   #172
Bus Crazy
 
milkmania's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,131
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
a little PB blaster or WD40 sprayed in (not a lot).. will also fire over easier than diesel fuel but not as quickly as ether... kind of a middle ground.

-Christopher
WD-40 changed their formulation a few years back... I used to use it to diagnose small engines. Last time I tried it, it did not ignite on a known good engine.
They may have reapplied their formula, I just haven't tried it again in a few years.
__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
milkmania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 12:19 AM   #173
Bus Crazy
 
milkmania's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,131
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
Discussion:
WD40 Not As Flammable? - Survivalist Forum
__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
milkmania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 12:43 AM   #174
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 156
Year: 1984
Coachwork: International Harvester
Chassis: S1700
Engine: 6.9l IDI
Rated Cap: 27 (adults)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dredman View Post
Funny I did cycle more than six times on Grand Mesa and that failed to provide any help and I really like that idea before I tried it damn it. I am convinced it is probably a ring issue except it never smokes at low altitude or at least at lower altitude so that is troubling also. All I know at this point is that I will try to stay at 6000 feet or below and keep pushing this bus around the country till it explodes into a mushroom cloud
Ha! But don't do that!! Try this?

http://www.mining-technology.com/contractors/transportation/cost-effective-maintenance/pressengines-blow-by-problems.html


Maybe you ran some particularly bad fuel?

i didn't read this entire thread, people have probably suggested things like that already so my bad if that isn't helpful. But id hate to see someone blow their engine up or give up on their bus.
Famousinternetjesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 07:00 AM   #175
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 4,229
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I looked and the can of stuff I have is PB-blaster.. I only used it before i realized that the start issue on my bus was the fuel pump losing prime.. it only does it once in a while.. once I disvocered that I just pumped it prime with the hand pump and its all good... i also had found a slight leak in a line, I still keep that can of PB-Blaster in the bus in case.. I had remembered the WD-40 from many many years ago as a kid getting our international scout diesel started in minus 15 degree weather... way before WD-40 changed their formula..

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 08:13 AM   #176
Bus Nut
 
GreyCoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Danglebury, Tejas
Posts: 310
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH 3800
Engine: Navistar DT466E
Rated Cap: 72 passenger
I'll relate a recent experience for the benefit of the group. Far from scientific proof, but maybe useful as an anecdote.

I was at Burningman this year (4500 feet) and started the bus daily for a few minutes just out of an abundance of caution. One morning it was 33 degrees and the bus had a very hard time starting and smoked a bit after starting. It had been getting harder to start for several days, and the difficulty increased with decreasing temperature. However, during the daytime, with temperatures in the upper 80's or 90's, it would pop right off. Note this is a 1998/99 DT466 with the HEUI injection system and three new Group 31's installed (it will start on just one at sea level and shirt-sleeve temps, but you know... overkill!!!)

I always run the Power Service additive in the silver jug as a matter of course, but my last fill-up was abbreviated and I didnt add the usual PS juice as there was a HUGE line of Burners behind me. Whoops. So once I finally got it started and running on the playa, I decided to add a quart to the 40-something gallons still in the tank and just let it idle until the temps came up.

The next morning it was 34F... and the bus started on the first or second revolution. The idle was slightly rough for about 5 seconds, but after that it was just another day in the life. No smoke. The **only** difference was the presence of the Power Service additive. Nothing else had changed. The bus hadnt moved an inch.

The mechanic in Fernley (who replaced my fan clutch) didnt think this was at all unusual. His comment was the refiners were not yet blending winter fuels and the cetane locally was "always on the low side anyway". His solution was the same as mine: run a cetane booster if its going to get cold.

Note this isnt a plug for a particular product. Instead it may suggest a direction for some cheap, no-harm "armchair" troubleshooting. Add 1 quart of PS silver to 50 gals of fuel, let it mix into the system, and then see if the problem persists.

My gut tells me Dred is fighting a fuel problem. Perhaps this will prove/disprove that theory.
__________________
"You can finally say you have enough horsepower when you leave two black streaks from corner to corner"
(Mark Donohue, famed TransAm driver)
GreyCoyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 09:13 AM   #177
Bus Nut
 
dredman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Moving thru America
Posts: 438
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyCoyote View Post
I'll relate a recent experience for the benefit of the group. Far from scientific proof, but maybe useful as an anecdote.

My gut tells me Dred is fighting a fuel problem. Perhaps this will prove/disprove that theory.
I could buy a fuel problem? But this is my second tank, and I had no issues in Grand Junction (6k feet) or Montrose. All my issues have been above or around 10k feet. Could still be a fuel issue I guess, combined with altitude.

Nevertheless I like all these new ideas, i will entertain and try just about anything (except a rebuild )
__________________
My 3 Year Adventure
dredman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 09:25 AM   #178
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 5,065
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Sounds like a mix of issues which makes it much harder to diagnose. The additional cranking time as well as some extra smoke are common to most non-computer diesels at higher altitudes (typically about 5000 feet and up). The "E" engines are supposed to compensate for altitude. Add in lower compression caused by worn rings and they can be a real beotch to get cranked. Then there is the lift pump...if it is weak, you may not be getting adequate fuel to fire off. Even having the timing off a little bit could easily make starting at altitude difficult. Any combination of the above (as well as a few other things) are very likely contributing factors.

Wish I could offer a simple fix, but I think this one calls for a savvy diesel tech to sort out. Hang in there Dred.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 09:26 AM   #179
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 463
Year: 1987
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: IH
Engine: IH 9 Liter
Rated Cap: 66 + driver
Dred, if it were me, I'd be trying some fuel additive, especially knowing summer fuel (typically lower cetane) is still being sold ... I've used Power Service before (former boss loved the stuff) but there are other additives equally as good. "Winter blend" fuel will be available soon, typically blended with somewhat higher cetane, and most refiners put in some anti-gel additives. Most companies will have drivers put in some additive every fill-up whenever the weather is predicted to drop below a certain temp. Blends may vary be region and refiner. Folks living in south Florida may wonder "Why do we need anti-gel in our fuel? It never drops below 50 here" ... but that trucker who filled up earlier may be in Michigan the next day where it dropped to -10 overnight.

For my 9 Liter IH, I'm sure I will run some sort of additive - not because of cetane and starting issues (after all, a 9L runs no glow/preheater system and is rated to start down to like 10 degrees; it is a Direct Injection design), but because the system is a 30 year old design and modern fuel lacks the same lubrication properties of "The Old Stuff" - I need something to keep the old hardware from excessive wear.
Brad_SwiftFur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2016, 09:43 AM   #180
Bus Nut
 
dredman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Moving thru America
Posts: 438
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
Sounds like a mix of issues which makes it much harder to diagnose. Hang in there Dred.
Thanks Tango - it is a struggle now, but I am trying my best to hang in there - at the top of the world


__________________
My 3 Year Adventure
dredman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.