Pancake / Pusher

[Stu & Filo. T]

Does anyone know the difference between a Cummins 855 Pancake configuration & 855 Pusher? it's my understanding the difference is Oil pan & oil pump pickup.
Is there more to it & what would be involved in converting one to be used in a Crown Pusher?

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T

Does anyone know the difference between a Cummins 855 Pancake configuration & 855 Pusher? it's my understanding the difference is Oil pan & oil pump pickup.
Is there more to it & what would be involved in converting one to be used in a Crown Pusher?

What I'm getting at is I might have the opportunity to score a 14L Cummins, right now I have a 8.3 Cummins rated at 250hp in my Crown RE, would this motor work in it's place & will it bolt up to my Allison 647 Trans??

[Robin97396]

Our minds think alike, although I probably have much less retention.

That was my theory. Bigger engine so it didn't have to work so hard. I can't answer the technical questions, but when I purposed a similar upgrade from my 5.9 to a 8.3 there wasn't much enthusiasm. The end result seems to consistently be that it costs more to do these modifications than it does to get a bus with the right engine and transmission already in it.
That being said, you're not going to find a 14L in a bus to my knowledge. That's a pretty uber engine.
I'm questioning why your 8.3 only has 250 hp. My 5.9 has about 195 or something like that. It seems your power could be bumped up considerably and more economically without the engine swap. I'm pretty sure you know how expensive radiators are for trucks, and that 14L is going to need a bigger one than your 8.3 uses. At the same time I can see your argument because the 14L won't be working hard and may not need extra cooling until you're in a pass or pulling a heavy load. That's some serious hp.

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

Our minds think alike, although I probably have much less retention.

That was my theory. Bigger engine so it didn't have to work so hard. I can't answer the technical questions, but when I purposed a similar upgrade from my 5.9 to a 8.3 there wasn't much enthusiasm. The end result seems to consistently be that it costs more to do these modifications than it does to get a bus with the right engine and transmission already in it.
That being said, you're not going to find a 14L in a bus to my knowledge. That's a pretty uber engine.
I'm questioning why your 8.3 only has 250 hp. My 5.9 has about 195 or something like that. It seems your power could be bumped up considerably and more economically without the engine swap. I'm pretty sure you know how expensive radiators are for trucks, and that 14L is going to need a bigger one than your 8.3 uses. At the same time I can see your argument because the 14L won't be working hard and may not need extra cooling until you're in a pass or pulling a heavy load. That's some serious hp.

The School district I bought from is in the middle of the California Desert with a hill not in site so they didn't need a lot of power. I buddy of mine knows quite a bit about the Cummins tells me I could punch out the 8.3 to 500 hp but then you start dealing with reliability, it would be nice to Cruz 70 mph all day long without over stressing a motor. I'm also told the 14L weighs about 1500 lbs over, about a foot longer, a foot higher & about a foot wider then 8.3 but that's all I've been able to find out so far.

[crazycal]

Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T

What I'm getting at is I might have the opportunity to score a 14L Cummins, right now I have a 8.3 Cummins rated at 250hp in my Crown RE, would this motor work in it's place & will it bolt up to my Allison 647 Trans??

I think you would need to figure out a couple of thinks first. First, how to not blow up your transmission. Also, I think that engine uses a SAE #1 housing.

[cowlitzcoach]

The 855 Cummins in a mid-ship installation is totally different from an 8.3L in an RE installation.

You would not be able to use an 855 with an MT647. The 855 has too much HP and torque for the MT series of transmissions. You would need to upgrade to an HT series.

Two other big issues would come up in trying to install an 855 in an RE.

First is the length. Not only is the engine longer but an HT is longer than an MT transmission. I don't think you would be able to shorten the driveshaft 24" which require extending the frame and building a doghouse on the rear bumper to accommodate the longer length of the power package.

Second is heat. Increasing the HP by 50% is going to require a substantial increase in the cooling capacity. In a Crown or Gillig with a mid-mount engine, the cooling system is designed to accommodate an engine with upwards of 450 HP. In a Crown or Gillig with an RE, unless it came from the factory with a 6V-92 pushing 350 HP, the cooling system isn't large enough to push much past 300 HP without experiencing problems. In fact, in my experience, most Gillig RE buses have problems on hot days on long grades with everything working correctly.

I am not saying it can't be done. I have seen pictures of a Kenworth Pacific that a guy swapped in a Cummins L10. It required the addition of a dog house on the rear bumper that stuck out almost three feet from the back of the bus. I always wondered if he didn't have problems with curb cuts scraping with that much sticking out that far behind the rear bumper.

[opus]

Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T

it would be nice to Cruz 70 mph all day long without over stressing a motor.

Why dont you look at gearing instead of an engine swap?

[Robin97396]

I am absolutely uninformed about crowns. So would that 14l fit in there? I've never even seen the engine compartment on one of those, although I do remember riding in some of the earlier ones. The bus, not the engine compartment. Sorry nostalgia, I was looking for something more modern. An aerodynamic brick shape actually.

I don't know how much spare room you've got, if any. Usually there isn't the kind of additional dimensions like you've been talking about in an average engine compartment. It sounds powerful and loud. Sounds like that one needs to come with it's own transmission too.
You seem to be trying to make a very powerful bus. Cool.

[Stu & Filo. T]

I would like more power & better drivability, the 855 was a thought because I could practically steal it but didn't know about feasibility of mounting to trans & getting it in the spot. If it would require different trans & cost thousands & thousands to convert then I guess I'll stick with the 8.3

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by opus

Why dont you look at gearing instead of an engine swap?

gears & ability to maintain speed would still require horsepower

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T

I buddy of mine knows quite a bit about the Cummins tells me I could punch out the 8.3 to 500 hp but then you start dealing with reliability,

Being that yours is an 1988, it's all mechanical and should be relatively easy to up the hp. I wouldn't go nowhere near 500, but a solid 300 would be pretty reliable and still deemed safe.

Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T

it would be nice to Cruz 70 mph all day long without over stressing a motor.

You should be able to do that with what you have. Granted, you might not be able to pull up pikes peak at 70 mph, but with 250hp and the right trans/rear gearing you'll be there.

I think the 14l would be way overkill for that. Let alone a lot of custom fab work to even get it in there.

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

Being that yours is an 1988, it's all mechanical and should be relatively easy to up the hp. I wouldn't go nowhere near 500, but a solid 300 would be pretty reliable and still deemed safe.

You should be able to do that with what you have. Granted, you might not be able to pull up pikes peak at 70 mph, but with 250hp and the right trans/rear gearing you'll be there.

I think the 14l would be way overkill for that. Let alone a lot of custom fab work to even get it in there.

In my mind theres no such thing as over kill, Don't want to climb Pikes Peak but would like to clime the sisters in Wyoming fairly easily while towing my Toad.

[Robin97396]

Still a cool idea. Customized bus with excessive power.

Oregon has three sisters, but you have to climb them on foot. Never been up there obviously.

Is anyone else thinking one of those powered para-gliders would be a cool item to have in a bus?

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T

In my mind theres no such thing as over kill, Don't want to climb Pikes Peak but would like to clime the sisters in Wyoming fairly easily while towing my Toad.

For a couple years now, I've been dreaming of some Semi/Bus hybrid beast. With the body of an AmTran and the front of a Peterbilt or KW.