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Old 06-13-2017, 08:15 AM   #11
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I don't have time to watch the video. But the clutch brake is used to stop the input shaft in order to shift into 1st. If the brake is trashed or worn it will cause grinding going into first when the vehicle is stopped.

If the clutch mechanism is hard, make sure every pivot point is lubed. There should be a zerk inside the bellhousing as well that will help the clutch actuate easier. That's the most likely reason for the inspection cover on the bottom to be missing, some mechanic took it off in order to grease that easier. Also, if it is out of adjustment, get it done asap because that will play a big part in clutch life.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:19 AM   #12
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if the clutch disemgages fully wouldnt the gears stop after a few seconds on their own? or is their enough resistance on the pilot bearing that its still can spin the input shaft (in Neutral). with the clutch disengaged?
-Christopher
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:43 AM   #13
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It'll keep rotating for a while (5 seconds, maybe more). It's not the fact of a pilot bearing or bushing dragging but the amount of weight that is rotating(clutch, input shaft and both countershafts will all still be spinning) gives it a lot of momentum that you don't want to be stopping with the gear teeth.

Not sure if it was covered in the video or not, but during regular shifting, you don't actually push the pedal all the way to the floor. Only when you want to put it in first while stopped do you do that. Otherwise you'll cut the clutch brake life drastically.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:05 AM   #14
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interesting.. is the clutch brake only on bigger non synchro setups?

ive never driven a non synchro.. I dabbled a little in RPM matching clutchless-shifting in a regular vehicle but didnt want to do it much as I figured that liught pressure put on the gearshift was going to waste the synchros..

-Christopher
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:16 AM   #15
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Bigger, non synchro setups. Especially those with twin and triple countershafts. I've never seen a triple, so I wouldn't cite them specifically, but they do exist fwiw.

Most of your non synchro stuff will have a clutch brake. Even if it is a non synchro first, with the rest of the gears synchro'd, it still will likely will have one. If it doesn't, it's liable to be a pretty light duty unit.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:31 AM   #16
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is RPM matching. /CLutchless shifting easier in a non synchro than in a regular car / truck type trans?

it seemed with a gas engine in a Jeep wrangler it was a royal PITA to attempt
-Christopher
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:33 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
It'll keep rotating for a while (5 seconds, maybe more). It's not the fact of a pilot bearing or bushing dragging but the amount of weight that is rotating(clutch, input shaft and both countershafts will all still be spinning) gives it a lot of momentum that you don't want to be stopping with the gear teeth.



Not sure if it was covered in the video or not, but during regular shifting, you don't actually push the pedal all the way to the floor. Only when you want to put it in first while stopped do you do that. Otherwise you'll cut the clutch brake life drastically.


Thanks booya. Video goes through use of clutch brake at 4:33. Seems likely the clutch brake is trashed since I tried every way I could think of to get into first without grinding, but could be I wasn't actually all the way to the floor. Will check it out this weekend.

Is a new clutch brake part of a new clutch? Those parts come from Fuller?



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Old 06-13-2017, 10:49 AM   #18
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is RPM matching. /CLutchless shifting easier in a non synchro than in a regular car / truck type trans?

it seemed with a gas engine in a Jeep wrangler it was a royal PITA to attempt
-Christopher

yes and no. Yes because your synchro's will help some even without the clutch being used.

No because I think it's much harder to rev to a specific rpm with a gas engine vs a diesel. Also the gas engine rpms seem to drop a lot faster then a diesel engine does.

You can also look at step % between the gear ratio's in the trans. Some of the ratio's will have different rpm drops between gears and it's harder to match when 1-2 shift drops from 4000 to 3250 while the 4-5 shift is 4000 to 2500. Most of your HD transmissions will keep the step % between each ratio about the same.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:54 AM   #19
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Thanks booya. Video goes through use of clutch brake at 4:33. Seems likely the clutch brake is trashed since I tried every way I could think of to get into first without grinding, but could be I wasn't actually all the way to the floor. Will check it out this weekend.

Is a new clutch brake part of a new clutch? Those parts come from Fuller?



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Well the brake might not be working if your clutch adjustment is that far out. A competent mechanic will be able to look in there and see if the brake is trashed while he is adjusting the clutch.

Have the clutch adjusted first.

As far as parts goes, depends on the specific kit you order. Most of the time I have to get the clutch brake seperate, but I haven't done a clutch in a few years(everything is automatic nowadays). Cowlitz might be able to provide you with more info regarding that.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:52 PM   #20
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I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty confident that's a direct swap.

I'll check on it and let you know tomorrow, if somebody else hasn't given you a definitive answer by then.

Still not a definitive answer, but I have some more info for you...

There's no guarantee it'll bolt up, but there's a pretty decent chance. When shopping for a new transmission, check its bolt pattern on the flywheel housing to see if it's the same as yours. Also check the input shaft to see if your clutch will work with it. Both of those can be changed out if your existing ones aren't right, but it's possible to find a Roadranger that'll work with what you already have. You'll have to get a driveshaft shortened though. There's no getting around that.
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