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Old 03-25-2017, 12:43 AM   #21
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Camp looks like fun I have always wanted to go but that's a pretty steep price to pay for a ticket alone, plus fuel, food, extra curricular activities and such. Maybe if my bus was done and I didn't have such a big bus parts wish list it wouldn't seem like such a big deal. Looks like one Hell of a time though

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Old 03-25-2017, 11:09 AM   #22
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Good to hear from a first hand participant of BM. It does look like fun and I have nothing against volunteer efforts at BM or anywhere else. It bothers me when certain individuals profit vastly from the volunteer labor of others, but at the same time the volunteers know exactly what they're getting into.

What is the perimeter patrol if I may ask? I'm guessing that stops encroachment from the folks that didn't want to buy tickets? I'm sure there's people trying to sneak in the back door.

I believe I understand what you mean by it has to be experienced or lived. Some of the places I go, like hot springs, make me feel the same way. Nobody can express the feeling in words. It simply has to be experienced.

Thanks for representing your view of BM.
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Old 03-25-2017, 01:51 PM   #23
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Yes, the perimeter of the event site is 9.2 miles long and consists of plastic "snow fence". It is called the trash fence, because its primary purpose is to catch wind-blown debris.

Of course, it also serves to identify the city limit.

And yes, we patrol that fence and surrounding area as "border guards", with binoculars and radios and such. No section of the fence is ever out of view of at least one patrol.
V-e-r-y few misguided souls try to sneak in, and we keep it that way.
Mostly, we offer directions to folks who are lost in one way or another. For example, we meet hunters and rock-hounds and hikers and so on... who come upon the Event, having never heard of it.

Since there seems to be quite a bit of worry over "where the money goes".... It goes all over the World. For example, there is a BM department called Burners Without Borders, who work in disaster relief. Their first campaign was Hurricane Katrina, and they have been growing ever since.
BM also sponsors art in public places in many countries.
And tons more.

Few years ago, a Board Member took undue advantage of his position and broke some of the fundamental principles of the Event. Few months later... he was g-o-n-e.

Anyway... I've been involved since 2006.

By the way.... They also have 4,000 half-priced Low Income tickets. Some years, they don't even receive 4,000 applications for those.

The ticket price is trivial.
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:39 PM   #24
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Thanks Elliot, I appreciate your view on this. I've read about BM events in Africa, so I realized it was getting wide spread.

So far I hadn't read anything about what is done with proceeds from the event. I get tired of journalism that doesn't fairly cover both sides of a story. All I found online was negative press, other than Youtube showing the top 5 attractions and sand storms.

Do you end up with much grit blowing in your bus?
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Old 03-26-2017, 02:04 PM   #25
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Please sit down, fasten your seatbelt, and get ready for a shocking piece of information:
Ready?
You said..."All I found online was negative press". Well, guess what....

All right, you figured it out. That means you are smarter than lots of folks.

The Burning Man Project (actual name of the non-profit organization) publishes a summary of its finances every year. There you can see how much goes to salaries and all such.

And a rather large chunk of proceeds from the event goes to producing the event.
Rent for the reserved use of public land.
Pay for law enforcement (and plenty of it) at overtime rates.
Twice a day servicing of something like 3,000 porta-potties.

Professional hospital and first aid stations. This invoice would be even bigger if it were not for all the medical professionals who VOLUNTEER their time, in addition to the paid staff.

Vehicle rentals -- such as the 4x4 pickups I drive on Perimeter (see photo above).
Radio rentals -- Gate & Perimeter, Black Rock Rangers, Emergency Services, etc, etc.

Commissary (cafeteria) for all the staff who work full time shifts -- from sworn law enforcement personnel to lowly volunteers like me. This is very expensive, even to feed only those who work full time that week.
(I have to work Perimeter for 42 hours in seven days to rate a Commissary pass. So most years I don't.)

Much, much more.

And, yes... the media rarely mentions any of this. It's not "sexy" enough.

All right.... I will try to shut up soon.

The first thing I tell people is.... Burning Man is NOT for everyone.

For those who feel in their gut that it may be for them... the first thing to do is forget everything they have heard and read. Then find some seasoned Burners and ask to apprentice with them.

And if you ask me.... Be ready to tell me what you intend to contribute to the community.
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Old 03-26-2017, 03:35 PM   #26
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Elliot, thanks again for sharing information on this subject. I think it's a bit premature to ask what a non-attendee would or could contribute to the BM community. I do appreciate your willingness to share information. I've learned more about BM from you than I have online.

I've thought about attending previously but didn't know enough about it. At the time I was getting second hand information through my adult children.

It's an interesting niche you've made for yourself at BM with your bike repair. I have no idea what I could contribute to the event without having experience the event previously simply because I have no idea what is needed there. Perhaps you could suggest what type of personal contributions are needed. I had assumed that the price of tickets was the primary contribution.

If I've offended you about your participation in the event I appologize, because my information gathering process wasn't meant to offend anyone. This is how we learn. Please understand that the written word isn't always read in the same light it was intended. I've been told many times that I have an offensive writing style, likely from the years of working for prosecuting attorneys as a paralegal.

Perhaps our discussions here will incline more people to attend. I'm still trying to learn more about it. I'm sure it's a week of great fun with a little fascination and wonder thrown in.

Personally I'm apprehensive about spending a full week there off grid. My bus isn't set for boondocking for that length of time yet.
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Old 03-26-2017, 04:43 PM   #27
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good info Elliot, thanks for sharing
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Old 03-26-2017, 05:46 PM   #28
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Yea-keep going. I'll never intend but always was interested in real info about it.
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Old 03-26-2017, 05:58 PM   #29
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First of all... I do not easily take offense. What does happen sometimes... is that I become frightened, or otherwise exited.
(An example of that was my "over eager" post about residential toilets in vehicles. I wasn't frightened on my own account, but over what could happen to someone else.)

And in this case, one of my first thoughts was... Gosh, some Skoolie-owner might buy a ticket to Burning Man, travel out there, and discover....

Because... there are people who leave... no, make that FLEE -- ESCAPE FROM... Black Rock City within hours of arriving.

That's why I used the word "apprentice".

If someone is thinking... "Should I go to Burning Man or should I go to Coachella -- I can only afford one...."
...then the answer is absolutely Coachella.

Because... this wonderful human has no idea what Burning Man is.

As for "contributing" -- and I also use the word "participating". You (Robin) make a good point. The first year, most normal humans will be fully occupied just "walking around with your jaw down to the third shirt button". I sure did. And this is fully expected.

Then my second year, I organized a 25-member Theme Camp, where we did some major contributing to hundreds of other Burner's day -- giving rides on our home-made pedal-vehicles and also repairing people's bicycles.

My thinking is that... anyone who is considering Burning Man at all, ought to understand that... although it is perfectly normal to have an introductory year, the concept is that everyone participates, as opposed to spectates.

Because... if nobody did... there would be no Burning Man. There would be 3,000 porta-potties, and nothing else.

Nothing. Else.

That's why I use "What will you contribute?" as a litmus test.
If the reply is "I'm contributing $425 and I want my money's worth."...
...Coachella.
If the reply is..."What or how can I contribute?... we may have something to work with.

By the way... you may hear about "gifts". Well... do not plan on bringing pretty necklaces as your contribution or as gifts. I throw piles of necklaces in the trash every year.

But if you tell me... "What if I walk around from camp to camp and serenade people with my banjo?"...
...I just might hand you an admission Ticket to a participatory community called Black Rock City.

Here's an example from last year:

I bring a piano, for all to play. It is not necessarily in perfect tune.

About mid-week, a man asked one of us to borrow some tools. He was shown a tool box. He selected a small socket and a pair of vice-grips. He clamped the socket in the vice-grips. Hard.
And tuned our piano with that improvised tuning-lever.

All done, he apologized for the jaw-marks on the socket. Then he simply strolled away -- onward to wherever he had been headed an hour earlier.

That's participating, or contributing, or gifting. And that's the "currency" in the "gift economy" of Black Rock City.

Two photos, building camp, 2016. I have no idea where the giant fork lift came from. But he sure saved us a ton of work.



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Old 03-26-2017, 06:48 PM   #30
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If I do go to BM I'm sure I would be walking around with my mouth hanging open, and that seems to be how the piano tuner found you. My guess is the piano tuner didn't plan on tuning pianos at BM, he just did it because that was his skill set and your piano might have been offending his delicate ears. If I have any usable skills I'd be happy to help anyone. I doubt anyone needs a tree faller, tunnel construction worker, military diesel specialist, paralegal, real estate appraiser or assundry other less mentionable jobs, but who knows? I generally fit right in with the hippie groups. I have a favorite hippie hangout at Cougar hot springs off of Hwy 126 near McKenzie Bridge.

By the way I'd never heard of Coachella previously. I didn't live a sheltered life but I have spend a fair amount of my adult years overseas. You know, the other path less taken.

Again I appreciate the information and it's a realistic possibility that I might go. I have no schedule. It's also less than ten hours drive from my place. Previously I had mistakenly understood it was south of Vegas.

I'd say you might know how I could help there better than I would at this point. I know I'm not going to want to simply walk around for a week. That's about the time I was planning to take my first road trip too.
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:50 PM   #31
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in other words.. if you are someone like myself, who only has 'first-world' abilities to contribute.. i cant play instruments no tune pianos nor dance for people..

a software guy in a school bus would be told "go home and dont come back..."

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Old 03-26-2017, 06:50 PM   #32
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Porta potties? no more piss ditch?
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Old 03-26-2017, 08:09 PM   #33
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Coachella looks like a giant music festival, not interested, burning man is full of strange people and stuff, much more interesting, the heat and dust would be a pain though
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Old 03-26-2017, 08:41 PM   #34
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Robin, you understand our mystery piano tuner perfectly.
(I actually bring tuning tools, but I had neglected to place them at the piano.)

Let's say... you are at a KOA and you are setting up a tent. And you are by yourself, and the wind picks up. And the tent is trying to go kite-flying.

Some other campers see you from across the campground. What do they do? Most likely, they say to each other "Stupid fool, he ought to wait until the wind stops."

Some years ago, I was setting up a 40 foot by 38 foot tarp for shade. It goes over Millicent and out to both sides. By myself -- except a friend helped me drag it up on Millicent's roof.

And the wind picked up.

Somewhere between 10 and 20 people came running from all directions, and held that tarp until I had it sufficiently tied.

Later, one of them came over and asked for help with their shade. They needed something like 30 people, because the entire structure needed to be lifted at once. Maybe 20 minutes later there were 30 people and up it went.

The next day, two of them brought me hot food while I was fixing bicycles all afternoon. Once I was free, they invited me to body painting at their camp. First time I had used "crayons" in half a century. Amazing fun to allow myself to play like a child again.

No special skills required.

Oh... and... those folks have been among my most wonderful friends year 'round ever since.

Here is my camp's website. It is in desperate need of updating and even outright repair, but it should give you some idea.
On the home page is my "Disneyland" analogy for "what Burning Man is".

Home
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Old 03-26-2017, 08:41 PM   #35
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At least this group doesn't have to worry about living in a tent.
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Old 03-26-2017, 08:44 PM   #36
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I don't like sand or the smell of weed. If it wasn't for that, I'd go.
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Old 03-26-2017, 09:02 PM   #37
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After 15 minutes of smelling the weed you'll no longer care.
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Old 03-26-2017, 09:12 PM   #38
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Hmm I'm allergic to THC, too much contact to weed smoke and I've a pounding migraine and no high!
Grr!! Of all the things to be allergic to
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Old 03-26-2017, 09:32 PM   #39
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Interesting, I have a similar reaction to alcohol. Well, not by smelling it.
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:15 AM   #40
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Yeah... tents! Hah!

Note, however, my camp uses quite a lot of canvas -- for shade. Each year, I add to the home-made structures which attach to Millicent, so we can do away with the Costco carports in the public areas.

See the trusses we are installing in that photo? They give us 38 feet by 31 feet shade -- clear span. Built by one of our campers.
No tarp is larger than 10 x 20, but even those are best installed in low wind.

Oh... and there is no sand out there. Only dust. Around one micron. Like talcum powder. We embrace it and call it Dust.

In Dust we trust,
Elliot

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