Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-18-2017, 05:09 PM   #1
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
1999 Amtran no crank/start issue

I have a 1999 amtran school bus with t444e that will not crank. Up until last week the bus started every single time and then somebody decided they needed to steel the batteries out of the bus. They cut one set of cables that looks to be a chassis ground, but thankfully left the main positive and negative cables attached. After replacing both batteries with the correct sized batteries , replacing the end on the chassis ground and then building new jumpers between the two batteries the bus would not start. No starter movement at all.

Pulled the batteries out and placed a charger on them overnight in a hopeful attempt that were just weak. Next day same thing.

Also noted is that the wait to start light on the dash is not illuminating when the key is on, only the ABS light and the air pressure light come on. Attempted to get codes with the diagnostic button but even that does not give any check engine lights for codes like I was expecting. at this point thinking something got shorted out.

I have checked all the fuses at the back of the bus in the remote start junction box and they all look good and as many fuses as I could get out of the panel under the drivers window where most of the lights and relays are mounted and found nothing out of the ordinary.


If any one has ideas, Chassis diagrams, or wiring diagrams for this it would be much welcomed at this point
thanks!
chmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 05:11 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
Could something have shorted out while the scum was chopping the cables? I am a total know-nothing when it comes to anything with an "E" on the end, but it seems like a big short could screw the goose on one them.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 05:14 PM   #3
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
Could something have shorted out while the scum was chopping the cables?
At this point that what I am assuming as visual inspection and some basic multimeter work has not yielded anything. headlights work, dash is getting voltage, ignition gets voltage and is engergizing a relay in the distribution panel when turned (cutting out juice to lights etc when it would normally be spinning the starter)
chmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 06:00 PM   #4
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,713
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
Perhaps check the starter connections first and clean up if necessary. That goes for the solenoid on the starter. Those jerks may have cut something down there. Dimming lights as the key is turned to start is normal in my opinion and when the key is released you should have lights again.
Sounds like you have checked well but have you looked at what is the starter relay? Those contacts do corrode on those relays. Hard to imagine what has happened disconnecting the batteries as they did but could be any number of ignition or fuses for ECM, engine etc.

Someone here likely has drawings if you can't find any. Good luck,

John
__________________
Question everything!
BlackJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 12:12 PM   #5
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
anyone know if on these buses there are fuses inline between the batteries? or somewhere specific i can test to ensure juice is getting back to the computer?
even a picture at this point would be helpful.
chmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 12:37 PM   #6
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,713
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
Why don't you post some pics of what you have electrically, fuse panels, relays, labeling of relays , breakers. Otherwise I can only guess. There must be a drawing online for your bus, as in electrical schematic.
Inline fuses are probable but test as easily as any circuit to ground. You either have continuity or not. If you have no continuity then no power flows.
In your mind, make it simpler and break it down further for testing. These problems will muddle your mind, so just be thorough and make notes so you know what works and goes where.

John
__________________
Question everything!
BlackJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 02:02 PM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,676
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
On my bus there is a direct connection from the batteries to the ECM, as well as a fuse for the ECM. With all the thieving, did they cut those wires?

The positive battery connection cable looks something like this, if I'm remembering correctly (this is not my photo). The black weather tight connection goes to the ECM. The other black blob is the fuse.
__________________
My build page: Armageddon - The Smell of Airborne Rust
jazty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 03:32 PM   #8
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 11,630
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
there are supposedly fusible links in the cables going from the battery to the starter lug... no WARN light and no WAIT light mean the ECM hasnt getting power.. there was a thread I was just posting some diagrams in where same issue existed.. wish i could remember where on here it is..

the ECM must prove and enable the starter relay before the starter will spin.

im also assuming that said thieves didnt open any doors, hatches, emergency exits etc that would now perhaps not be closed tightly and would cause a no-start? your bus has no Vandalocks? those typically wont let the bus start if they are in the wrong position?
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 03:57 PM   #9
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
Chris, that seems to be a point the rest of us missed. It makes sense that if they were steeling the batteries they would also enter the bus to see what else they could find. Unless it was unlocked they likely entered through the tophatch. Good catch.

OP, open your top hatch and then reconnect the electrical connection.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2018, 05:37 PM   #10
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
Update, I managed to get back out today and look over some more.
All doors and windows were locked/ up and so nothing was taken cut etc inside. I did got back through and open /close all the safety doors so everything should be ok as far as interlocks are concerned. I traced the positive cable all the way back to the starter solenoid and have 12v, in the picture below I found something I dont recognize, but i pulled the plug off to check for voltage and on the 3 pins there is nothing.



I visually inspected the cables all the way back and did not find any inline fuses which I was hoping I would. I also followed the negative to the frame ground as well as too the start and everything looks good as well.

I was able to hook up a remote starter to the start solenoid and spin the starter but even with the key in the run position it wont start.

Battery installation still looks ok to me

2018-01-01 15_25_23-Photo - Google Photos.png

On the remote start panel (back by the engine bay) I also checked the fuse. the main one i noted was the ecm ign fuse which is getting 12v when the key is turned on.

remote panel.png
remote panel 1.png
but really not sure where to go from here. Just for grins I pulled every fuse again and checked. and all were good, And yes the missing ones all look normal to me, there were several that were not in use and the bus was running fine. I appreciate you all looking and the help being provided..
drivers side window.png
drivers side window 1.png
drivers side window 2.png
drivers side window 3.png
Attached Images
File Type: png 2018-01-01 15_16_31-Photo - Google Photos.png (791.2 KB, 26 views)
chmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.