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Old 03-12-2019, 04:08 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by PeteinSF View Post
You never need to run the starter current through a disconnect switch.

All starters are disconnected via the starter relay/solenoid. You want to use the switch to disconnect everything else.



Some buses have the positive cable going to the starter terminal and then it gets branched off to everything else. They are common in that sense and need disconnecting to avoid parasitic draw.
There are variations of course to this but this is why one can't generalize, each bus has to be evaluated on its own.
That's why you want the best electrical and mechanical connections you can make, not willy nilly that leads to certain problems.
Of course the start relay supplies the start solenoid but its the other side of the starter that is always hot, not just when starting.


John



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Old 03-12-2019, 05:57 PM   #42
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Well mr apprentice, cable size and lugs are relevant to the electrical characteristics of the starter draw. That is undetermined in this case so the lugs must be rated at least for the cable's capacity. I don't know what he has and either do you so you can't just generalize connections as you seem to imply. Hole size in a proper lug is crucial so there is no movement at the battery post and so no conductors have to be trimmed from the cable to make it fit an undersized lug.
Happy now?
en you brought up cables and

John
I never said anything about lug to cable compatibility. this all started when you said the battery disconnect would not work on the bus cables. You're just plain wrong. When you started about the lugs and cable compatibility I had already mentioned changing to a lug for the cable and disconnect. Stop telling me I'm wrong and tell me what specifically I said that was incorrect, not a bunch of theory on what works or not.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:25 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
I never said anything about lug to cable compatibility. this all started when you said the battery disconnect would not work on the bus cables. You're just plain wrong. When you started about the lugs and cable compatibility I had already mentioned changing to a lug for the cable and disconnect. Stop telling me I'm wrong and tell me what specifically I said that was incorrect, not a bunch of theory on what works or not.

Just the poorest of all options marco. Put it in your bus and see if it'll start.
I will call you on anything you post that is shoddy , dangerous or whatever...


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Old 03-12-2019, 08:33 PM   #44
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Just the poorest of all options marco. Put it in your bus and see if it'll start.
I will call you on anything you post that is shoddy , dangerous or whatever...


John
Yap, Yap, Yap. Still can't answer the question can you? Please tell the others the data you use to says that won't work, PLEASE. Tell me anything negative that that unit would cause. We run double batteries of the same amperage in our racecourse, these cutoffs are common. There are better quality than other models out there, but they all do the same job.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:39 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
Some buses have the positive cable going to the starter terminal and then it gets branched off to everything else. They are common in that sense and need disconnecting to avoid parasitic draw.
There are variations of course to this but this is why one can't generalize, each bus has to be evaluated on its own.
That's why you want the best electrical and mechanical connections you can make, not willy nilly that leads to certain problems.
Of course the start relay supplies the start solenoid but its the other side of the starter that is always hot, not just when starting.

John



John
I stand by my comment. There is never a “need” to run a starter through a disconnect switch. (Marine applications maybe)

It the bus uses the hot leg of the starter solenoid as a junction point that should just be rerouted as it’s not helpful long term.

If you remove the starter load from the new switch the wire gauge becomes much less of an issue.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:25 PM   #46
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Pics!

Here are a few pics, but first a question: The two older batteries date from 11/18 and are 950 CCA. The new one is 925 CCA. Is that CCA rating difference a possible source of a charging problem.

I don't know what all the cables do, but I do see one crappy looking positive lug. If there are any insights from these great. Otherwise, just enjoy pics.

Joe
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:46 PM   #47
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They need to all be exactly the same cca, man.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:51 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
Yap, Yap, Yap. Still can't answer the question can you? Please tell the others the data you use to says that won't work, PLEASE. Tell me anything negative that that unit would cause. We run double batteries of the same amperage in our racecourse, these cutoffs are common. There are better quality than other models out there, but they all do the same job.

Me yap, who has 4500 plus posts? Oh yeah, mr know it all. The guy who knows more than the people that discovered and harnessed electricity. So, continue to impress on how much you know wiseguy!



Never did I say your idea wouldn't work. I said it is a poor idea, poor solution when dealing in bigger lugs sizes. Poor mechanically and electrically. Why? because your flimsy way of connecting leads to arcing simply,which in turn leads to more problems electrically.

Done with you on this. You wanna argue black is white, go someplace else.

Now does the OP have toasted batteries or not before you so rudely interrupted the conversation.


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Old 03-13-2019, 06:58 PM   #49
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I have them charging. I now know all must match CCA.

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Old 03-13-2019, 07:08 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteinSF View Post
I stand by my comment. There is never a “need” to run a starter through a disconnect switch. (Marine applications maybe)

It the bus uses the hot leg of the starter solenoid as a junction point that should just be rerouted as it’s not helpful long term.

If you remove the starter load from the new switch the wire gauge becomes much less of an issue.

"There is never a “need” to run a starter through a disconnect switch"



I have to agree with you there but depending on how the bus is originally wired, sometimes to eliminate parasitic draw, people resort to this and install a disconnect on the starter cable. To each their own I guess.


"It the bus uses the hot leg of the starter solenoid as a junction point that should just be rerouted as it’s not helpful long term."


I think you misunderstood my point here. I said the main starter connection, not the starter solenoid connection, as that is only hot with the key in "ON." I'm talking the main heavy battery positive cable to the starter bolt itself. Not sure how many buses are mfg'd that way but many are. It was cheap and convenient but can be remedied easily enough.




"If you remove the starter load from the new switch the wire gauge becomes much less of an issue.[/QUOTE]"


Ok, we agree that the starter should never be switched period other than by the start solenoid.
If there was another junction point after the positive post of the battery, that would make 12v distribution so much simpler and there would be an optional place for a disconnect of the 12v system totally. That would deal with parasitic loads discharging the start batteries.


So, people have to get to know this part of their bus and figure what is the best solution.One size doesn't fit all kinda thing.




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