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Old 05-02-2016, 12:12 AM   #21
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I think it would if you turned the heater fans on. The only time I tried to use it, it ran my batteries down. It has a timer on it and the mechanic told me they would set it to come on a while before they started their morning route. A bus driver said they also used them when driving around if the engine wasn't producing enough heat to heat up the bus.

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Old 05-02-2016, 06:16 AM   #22
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A bit pricier than I can consider (I hope to find a full bus for not much more than they want for this): Proheat ? X45 School Bus
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Old 05-02-2016, 06:29 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dapplecreek View Post
A bit pricier than I can consider (I hope to find a full bus for not much more than they want for this): Proheat ? X45 School Bus

yeah they are pricey.. I looked at them a bit myself.. you might be able to find a used trucker APU which does similar as well...

I do know for a fact in REALLY cold weather a diesel bus running slow will not stay warm inside so they used these.. a few years back I was helping with an event in minneapolis in january.. the actual (non-wind) temperature was negative 27.. i was driving one of the busses.. I think it was a mid 90s bluebird.. not sure of the engine.. it was diesel.. I had every heater in that bus turned on high and the only time I ever got warm inside was on the highway.. the temp gauge would run up to close to 1/2 then.. but back on the surface streets it would go below 1/4..

the other bus being run had an Aux heater and was roasty toasty inside and its engine reached normal temp all the time

I think though if you are building an RV, like mentioned putting PEX in your floor is the way to go and will keep you quite warm...

you WILL need to build a temperature regulation system as you almost NEVER want your floor-heat Loop temperatures over 100 degrees.. in fact when i built them into Houses i ran loop temperatures typically 90 or below but would do a run up to 100 if a customer really wanted hot feet...

your bus coolant temperature when driving is going to be 180 or above..



-Christopher
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Old 05-02-2016, 09:10 AM   #24
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Very common on Cummins and many others. It is simply a 110v heating element that protrudes into the water jacket. You plug it in to an external source and it raises the temperature of the water/coolant mix in the block. Have one on my 4BT but doubt I'll hook it up as it is jammed up against the turbo and would likely melt the cord unless removed from the engine.
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Old 05-02-2016, 09:18 AM   #25
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That's interesting. I hadn't seen or heard of those in the past.

In the military we had auxiliary diesel heaters for vehicles, but never a coolant heater that I ever saw.

Wouldn't that do basically the same thing as a tankless water heater dedicated to the bus coolant system? Of course you'd have to use a pump also.
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Old 05-02-2016, 09:33 AM   #26
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It is so funny this thread popped up today, and my start-battery died last night lol.
I checked them, and they were "puffy"...time for new ones! ...And time for my butt-head to remember and unplug them -_-
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:20 AM   #27
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I recommend you ingest several six packs to help swallow that bitter pill.
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:39 AM   #28
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Yes the Webasto and Espar could be thought of similarly to a tankless domestic water heater. They don't give the same once-through temperature rise a tankless heater would, so they won't take in 50 degree water and put out 120. But over time, recirculating the coolant over and over, they'll pre-heat the coolant, engine, cabin heaters and whatever else shares the loop to 180+ degrees.

In Europe these heaters are (apparently) very common even in regular passenger cars and are called "parking heaters."

As in cadillackid's experience, the Webasto/Espar also are used in environments where the bus engine won't produce enough "waste" heat for all the auxiliary demands, so the coolant heater is run too for passenger comfort and to keep the engine at temperature to avoid the carbon deposits that can accumulate when a diesel engine runs cold.

Several of us here have or plan to use one of these heaters for space and domestic water heating.
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:44 AM   #29
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The externally plugged in coolant/block heaters don't raise the temp all that much. They are really only intended to prevent the block from freezing in severe cold. They also help a bit with starting in those conditions.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:45 AM   #30
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That sounds like a pretty worthwhile investment. I don't know how efficient they are but it sounds good. I like the idea of something that will heat the bus, but it sounds like you need fans. Hence the house battery system I guess.

I'll admit, a dedicated tankless water heater connected to the coolant system actually sounds a lot simpler, but again changes your fuel/power source.
I've also read a thread where they created a closed loop of coolant for heating the bus not connected to the engine, utilizing a tankless water heater. I'm leaning that direction because the bus operating temp rarely rises enough to put out heat through the heaters. Yes it gets warm even in the back, but not enough to affect the person in that seat.

I don't really like dealing with a wood stove in a bus. It feels good, but wood and ash are dirty. Besides, I've been feeding wood stoves for to much of my life already. Most of the time this stove gets used as a table, and to be able to put things inside it.

I have several of those old submersible military water heaters that you put into a garbage can full of water to boil it in about 7 minutes. They melt themselves if not fully submerged when fired. Simplicity and efficiency, but not quite appropriate for heating a bus. I can see copying the design to be used more effectively in buses.
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Old 06-23-2016, 02:06 PM   #31
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Hi everyone, I've been lurking for a while, but this is my first post.

Up in the Frozen North (I'm in central Alaska), all the busses are spec'd with Webasto or Espar heaters on them. The Thomas pusher I'm converting actually has 2 of the Webasto Scholastic heaters, each rated for 45,000btu. I hadn't seen this configuration before... most of the busses just have one plumbed in series with the engine coolant loop that runs to the under-seat heaters and the driver's heater/defroster. Mine had a second heater added on a closed loop, hooked up to a couple water/air heat exchangers with custom ducts rigged up by the school district to blow hot air down a series of overhead vents on both sides of the passenger compartment.

I also have an old '82 MCI MC9 coach, and it came with a Webasto Thermo 350 that puts out 120,000btu.

I drove a shuttle bus for the local university for a couple winters, and even on a little 15pax busses, there was no way to get the temp up in the winter without the auxiliary heaters running. (They happened to use Espar E5's.) It didn't help that on-campus shuttle busses basically idle around at <20mph and never get a decent load put on the engine to generate some heat, plus they have the doors opening every minute or so letting the heat out. That little heater was a champ though. Even with the door open so often, it would keep it pretty toasty inside at -50*F.

As to using this type of heater for domestic hot water or cabin heat while stationary... either one could certainly be done, but I don't know that it's really the best tool for either job.
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Old 06-24-2016, 06:02 AM   #32
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how are the Espar heaters? the company I buy all my A/C gear for my project from sells eSpar.. im looking at that as an aux heater solution for mine... since its stayung mainly a bus im not installing wood stoves or propane furnaces etc.. i want to put a coolant heater in... I have 2 Group 31 batteries plus the 2 starting batteries.. that will run heater fans for quite awhile.. I figure I'll plumb the heater into the main heater coolant loop with the boost pump.. and can use it in cold weather to pre-warm the engine as well if im at ah otel where I cant plug in my blcok heater..
-Christopher
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Old 06-25-2016, 07:18 PM   #33
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I thought the Espar's were pretty nice in use, but we only used them as boosters with the vehicle running and I haven't looked up their stationary power consumption. I imagine it's similar to the other brands and I know the Webasto Scholastic heaters are supposed to draw ~132 watts (11 amps @ 12v) with the heater and the pump both running (not including any heater fans for your under-seat heaters or whatever).

The under-seat heaters I have draw about another 10 amps each.

You probably don't want to be running your starting batteries down, so assuming just the 2 deep cycle group 31 house batteries at around 100ah each, and planning for a 50% depth of discharge so you don't ruin your batteries, you've got 100ah total reserve to work with.

With the Webasto/Espar running plus one under-seat heater running, you could expect roughly 5 hours of run time with no other electrical loads. That sounds a bit low, but may be fine depending on your needs. Also the heat system could be designed to cycle as needed, which would stretch that run time out over a longer period of being stationary.

That run time drops of course if you run more heat emitters... My bus has 6 under-seats and 2 Webasto's, so if I ran them all without the engine running, they would draw 80+ amps and drain my batteries in no time flat.
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