Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-29-2019, 04:09 PM   #1
Skoolie
 
geminusprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 214
Year: 1997
Coachwork: International
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: DT466E / AT545
Rated Cap: 72
Faulty Instrument Cluster or Something Worse?

This is my cluster as it came, just started doing this a few days ago.

I've got a full replacement cluster on the way with the additional gauges I need, but before i go through installing that, is this something that may be a larger problem? I was thinking maybe electrical, but hoping it's just a bad cluster.

Once I have the new one in, I'll clean up and resolder the contacts on the old one, but for now I don't want to risk screwing something up and not having a working cluster at all.



As a lucky bonus, while the cluster was out, i figured out how to get cruise control and high idle control working! It's idling at 1,200 RPM.
geminusprime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 07:00 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 11,131
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
that looks like one of the issues which is classic connection related.. its going through its power cycle up and down routine so probably one of the power leads..



the full sweep oil P gauge is if i remember an actual mechanical gauge with an oil line going to it.. and that temp gauge is an actual sender...



re-soldering the connectors very well might fix that one..



-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 07:42 PM   #3
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,320
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
Looks like a faulty solder connection. I didn't waste my money on another cluster, I just reflowed the solder on the socket connections and was rather quickly back in business.


As I recall, the oil pressure, voltage, and coolant temperature is worked by the computer as well. The fuel level is direct connection to the tank sender, and air pressure (if equipped) is an actual mechanical air-line connected gauge.
Brad_SwiftFur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 08:14 PM   #4
Skoolie
 
geminusprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 214
Year: 1997
Coachwork: International
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: DT466E / AT545
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
that looks like one of the issues which is classic connection related.. its going through its power cycle up and down routine so probably one of the power leads..



the full sweep oil P gauge is if i remember an actual mechanical gauge with an oil line going to it.. and that temp gauge is an actual sender...



re-soldering the connectors very well might fix that one..



-Christopher
Thanks, although I am concerned about the oil gauge. It is a oil line to the gauge, and there is VERY little slack. Is it actually filled with oil, and if so how does one go about removing it without covering the back of the panel with oil?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
Looks like a faulty solder connection. I didn't waste my money on another cluster, I just reflowed the solder on the socket connections and was rather quickly back in business.


As I recall, the oil pressure, voltage, and coolant temperature is worked by the computer as well. The fuel level is direct connection to the tank sender, and air pressure (if equipped) is an actual mechanical air-line connected gauge.

Normally I wouldn't consider buying a replacement cluster just "to have", but a full cluster with all the gauges I need already in it for $79 was a super deal I couldn't pass up. Even sending my existing board to circuitmechanics for the 2 new gauges would cost more.

God bless ebay!
geminusprime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 08:43 PM   #5
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 5,242
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
As long as the motor isn't running their is no pressure in that gauge line. Remove it carefully with a rag and you shouldn't lose any oil.
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 08:52 PM   #6
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 11,131
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Brad the early E engines pre NavPak / DLC III, and thexgauges weren’t running off the J1708.

The oil line .. when I disconnected mine on my dev bus I pulled it at the opposite and which gave me enough slack to pull the cluster and catch most of the oil going out the opposite end and just a few drops at the gauge.
Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 09:05 PM   #7
Skoolie
 
geminusprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 214
Year: 1997
Coachwork: International
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: DT466E / AT545
Rated Cap: 72
What is pre NavPak / DLC III? Is this a good or bad thing?

I know the mechnical 466 is better regarded than the electronic version, is mine a middleman of sorts? Or just lacking something useful?
geminusprime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 09:48 PM   #8
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 11,131
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
The early electronic engines used 3 box system as it was called..then the diamond logic controller or NavPak as some call it came to use.. most of the 3 box systems were gone by beginning of 97.. I’ve heard of some where the new computer was used but the old style gauge cluster hung on..
as far as which one is better ? There’s quite a few 466e and 444e pre 97 still on the road. If you have a larger single computer hanging off the side of your engine you have a DLC with the old style gauge cluster...

Supposedly the DLC was initially created to have a one box solutions and to communicate with the Allison world (md3000 series) transmissions ..

I’m only going on what a couple long time navistar employees tell me.
Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 10:30 PM   #9
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,320
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
I've worked on an old vehicle or two with mechanical oil gauges. There's no pressure on the line with the engine off, remove it carefully and you should only lose a few drops of oil.


I'm rather surprised a '97 has a mechanical oil gauge. My '87 (9.0L engine) had an electric gauge. I know this for a fact as I had to replace the sending unit (was showing 80 PSI oil pressure at idle before replacement).
Brad_SwiftFur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2019, 04:24 AM   #10
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 11,131
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Brad it’s a weird one as the S series all had electric gauges from what I know, I think even the DTs, but they went back to mechanical for a few years in the 3800/4700/4900 ... even the early t444e has these gauges.. from what I’ve seen, the gauges that are 0-100 full circle sweep are the mechanical and the 0-100 gauge that’s just across the top are part of the communicating clusters.

Funny thing is my 1978 bus has an electric oil gauge. Albeit iloadstsrs did t have integrated clusters but have VDO style round gauges.. nice because there’s no board.. you can replace individual gauges on that one
Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.