Gillig Phantom Fuse Box Clean Up

[Yukon Cornelius]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

Nice work Marky, this stuff takes time but sure cleans things up if not necessary to the bus operating.
Rick's work is all about the actual wiring for the bus to run, start, charge etc.
He can really make that distribution cabinet a thing of beauty to a trained eye and a few new parts. All electrical apparatus has a finite lifesyle and seen better days in our mostly 20 year old vehicles.

I like my wiring to meet its connection point at right angles mostly for ease of installation and/or removal in future. A few stickybacks for tyrapping too, some terminal strips and ventilated raceway to hide most of the wiring until it is at the connection point.

Good wire strippers and wire markers are essential.
For anyone considering doing this, google Panduit. They have stuff you never imagined for panel building.
If you can drill and tap 8/32 holes anyone can do a nice layout.


John

Tywrapping is blasphemy.....
wax string lacing is the only way

[BlackJohn]

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

Tywrapping is blasphemy.....
wax string lacing is the only way

Says the feller who knits woodstoves outta steel wool!


John

[cadillackid]

awesome looking wiring fix-up!! surprised you used fuses and not breakers? maybe I just hate changing a fuse late at night for the lights because something acccidentilly surged it.. that setup sure looks nice N clean as opposed to the way busses normally look!.




ECCB not wearing shorts?????? it mustve been REALLY COLD (like below 70) in florida

[ComfortEagle]

Originally Posted by MarkyDee

I'm still in the middle of my effort ...

What is all that stuff?

Originally Posted by cadillackid

awesome looking wiring fix-up!! surprised you used fuses and not breakers? maybe I just hate changing a fuse late at night for the lights because something accidentally surged it.. that setup sure looks nice N clean as opposed to the way busses normally look!.

24 circuit breakers, now that would have been impressive; I get a few style points for the two 100A breakers, no? And we'll see how nice and clean it looks after I wire it this weekend...

[MarkyDee]

Originally Posted by ComfortEagle

What is all that stuff?

It was most of the additional wiring that the City of Houston installed for their fleet management equipment. The equipment took up about 5 feet of space in the overhead bins on both curb- and street-side. They also installed 5 different antennas on the roof (drilling holes for all of them). They also had 3 different power taps coming from the side console going up to that mess.



There's still a little bit of wiring up front behind the front destination sign that I haven't gotten out yet. I'll probably pull the rest when I remove the sign.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

awesome looking wiring fix-up!! surprised you used fuses and not breakers? maybe I just hate changing a fuse late at night for the lights because something acccidentilly surged it.. that setup sure looks nice N clean as opposed to the way busses normally look!.




ECCB not wearing shorts?????? it mustve been REALLY COLD (like below 70) in florida

Keen eye!
Its been in the 50's-60's in the day. 40's at night. Dixie has had her space heater going quite a bit.

Funny how this cold weather is the kind I hate the MOST and now is when I decide the bus needs to be DONE!

[ComfortEagle]

I got one of the new boxes wired up today. I hope to finish up tomorrow... and get back to work on finishing up the dash. I'm supposed to be building a skoolie.

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by ComfortEagle

I got one of the new boxes wired up today. I hope to finish up tomorrow... and get back to work on finishing up the dash. I'm supposed to be building a skoolie.

Looks great! I also used the same fuse panel for my house 12v system. It has worked well so far. I didn’t go nearly as far as you did, but I largely gutted my oem electrical panels. Learned a lot along the way.

[Native]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Most buses have an outside electrical access box full of breakers, fuses, solenoids... Mine came without that. It would normally be located where the stop sign mount is in the pic I posted.

Our 2002 Thomas has no outside fuse box either. Perhaps it is a Freightliner thing.

[jimburke77502]

Anyone ever see the wiring in an ambulance? Can't say that they still do it or if it's the same way on the buses, but the wiring on my old 1984 ambulance had literally every single wire labeled as to what it was for. Not just tags, it was printed right into the wire casing. Made it real nice when I decided to move the main control console from the dog house up to the ceiling, doing a 5 foot stretch on the entire wire harness.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by jimburke77502

Anyone ever see the wiring in an ambulance? Can't say that they still do it or if it's the same way on the buses, but the wiring on my old 1984 ambulance had literally every single wire labeled as to what it was for. Not just tags, it was printed right into the wire casing. Made it real nice when I decided to move the main control console from the dog house up to the ceiling, doing a 5 foot stretch on the entire wire harness.

A lot of busses do it too depending on the manufacture tires.. the chassis almost always do. The wires have numbers every foot or so that correspond to circuit numbers in the service manuals . I think bluebird and thomas do it for the body circuits too and I’m pretty sure the newer coach busses do it.

[PeteinSF]

You may want to consider adding the BlueSea low voltage disconnect (LVD) kit.

It really extends the life of lead acid batteries buy keeping them in a “happy place” voltage wise and will save you if you leave something on or if the bus is parked for a long period with some unknown tiny load dripping the energy away.

[ComfortEagle]

Originally Posted by PeteinSF

You may want to consider adding the BlueSea low voltage disconnect (LVD) kit.

It really extends the life of lead acid batteries buy keeping them in a “happy place” voltage wise and will save you if you leave something on or if the bus is parked for a long period with some unknown tiny load dripping the energy away.

Thank you for the tip; I will look into it.



I finished up the fuse box rewiring today. No more random in line fuses, sketchy crimps, and no more fried fuse blocks...

Here is the before:


And here is the mostly finished fuse box:


I say mostly done. I have a Blue Sea bus bar coming to serve as a common fuse box grounding point. I also have some cloth wire loom tape coming. Once the bus is running again and all systems are checked I would like to ditch some/most/all? of the tie-ties in lieu of the cloth tape...

[Tango]

Dang that's purdy!!!


Feel free to come do mine if you get bored.

[BlackJohn]

Hey Rick, thanks for thinking of me, hope it was good thoughts.
Now my turn to think of you and what you've done here.
Ya know, if 10 people had to rewire that distribution enclosure, I would bet we would have 10 different looking results. Mine would not look like yours for certain reasons, which we will discover shortly. After the trick question I posed.

Very neat as one would expect. Love those circuit breakers too.
Nice that most of the junk is gone too.
But I see a problem that will get you back to what you had originally in the old fuse blocks, the heating of them and poor connection.

Anybody else see it?


Also the use of lugs on each fuse terminal? Why not straight in with the wire only?



John

[ComfortEagle]

Originally Posted by Tango

Dang that's purdy!!!

Feel free to come do mine if you get bored.

Thanks Tango. I am grateful for the simplicity of this "old" 1986 bus...

[ComfortEagle]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

But I see a problem that will get you back to what you had originally in the old fuse blocks, the heating of them and poor connection. Anybody else see it?

Also the use of lugs on each fuse terminal? Why not straight in with the wire only?

The fuse panels don't accept straight wire.

As for your riddle, just tell me John...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvcJqcUlYTo

John, Please know I am NOT calling you a troll, I just like how he says "solve my riddle"...

[BlackJohn]

Ok, I resemble the grumpy old troll,



Now this is for your eyes only Rick.


Condensation is a big issue in buses and most vehicles. Science has proven water to flow downhill. Bringing your wires from the top down instead of bottom to top, creates a natural flow path for condensation to run down. Right onto your terminations, beginning the corrosion cycle all over.

The moisture will create a path of least resistance for current to follow and susceptible to short circuits and heat build up.


This is why mine would look different. I would have brought each circuit up from the bottom so as to shed that condensation. Make sense now?
It might seem trivial but that it is not when you are the guy who has to do the repairs. Everyday the inside climate will vary and condensation is unavoidable as you have it.


Can you show a pic of the terminals why they won't accept straight wire? That is certainly something new to my eyes.


John

[ComfortEagle]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

Condensation is a big issue in buses and most vehicles. Science has proven water to flow downhill. Bringing your wires from the top down instead of bottom to top, creates a natural flow path for condensation to run down. Right onto your terminations, beginning the corrosion cycle all over.

Can you show a pic of the terminals why they won't accept straight wire? That is certainly something new to my eyes.

Here is a pic of the fuse box. The metal under the screws is fixed in place...


I appreciate your concerns regarding moisture. To make the kind of change you suggest IMO would have been difficult based on the original design and layout of the fuse box.

However, please know that based on your assessment, I will be expanding the fuse box inspection card in my periodic maintenance information card (PMIC) deck to include recurring corrosion inspections and treatment.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Originally Posted by ComfortEagle

Thank you for the tip; I will look into it.



I finished up the fuse box rewiring today. No more random in line fuses, sketchy crimps, and no more fried fuse blocks...

Here is the before:


And here is the mostly finished fuse box:


I say mostly done. I have a Blue Sea bus bar coming to serve as a common fuse box grounding point. I also have some cloth wire loom tape coming. Once the bus is running again and all systems are checked I would like to ditch some/most/all? of the tie-ties in lieu of the cloth tape...

CE that is some clean sir, I understand the visual appeal to cloth tape. But I have to ask why?
You've spent a considerable amount of cleaning up this application why hide it? With a product that could add to the aforementioned condensation issue depending upon which brand you use.
Plus its hard to complete a visual inspection card on a bundle one can't actually look at. And effecting a repair then ends up being more time consuming.
If it were me as I have already eluded to, I was replace the cable tie, zapstraps, zipties, or whatever of name one has for them, with wax string and lace them. This permits easy visual inspection and should a wire repair become necessary you clip the knot and open up the bundle.

Below is 2 of the more common methods





Not saying this is the best way, just a different one. Could just be that this is how we've done it my entire career as to why I like it. I'm a bigger fan of individual lace points as oppose to gang lacing.