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Old 09-03-2016, 12:24 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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I really need some help with the wiring here!!!

Hello everyone,

I am having a tremendous amount of trouble figuring out how to bypass the emergency door killswitches. I cant start the bus and we need to move it in the next 10 days. I have read a ton of information about these switches and how to bypass them however I just cant seem to grasp it. I had my dad take a look at it. He can usually figure out just about anything like this. We poked around with meters and traced out a bunch of wires and I still cant seem to get the thing to start. I have seen 2 threads on here describing how to jump the switches out but, none are the same as mine. I am posting a picture of my panel and I am hoping that some one can say " Thats easy just put the duhicky in the thing'a'mabob and your done"

The door switches have 1 white/pink wire going in and then a switch. after the switch is a ground. When the door is closed and locked the switch is open (not grounded).

In the picture:

1: Source of power going to a relay buzzer thing
2: Relay Buzzer thing. It has 2 wires on one side
(black) one is power in, the other goes to the door switch buzzers to supply power.
There are also 3 white/pink wires that go to the door switches on the other half of the relay buzzer thing. (switches have only one white/pink wire and a black that goes to ground when the door is open)
3: The black hot wire from the original power source (1) makes its way back from the buzzers returning the the panel an this point.
4: The hot black wire that originated at (1) then re-enters at (3) leads to a terminal here to supply power to a few other wires. One of those wires goes to a solenoid (5)
5: Solenoid that supplies power to the starter ( I assume, I did not trace the wires out yet but I can tomorrow)


Thank you,

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Old 09-03-2016, 02:51 PM   #2
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Just some quick observations. Isn't that the wiring diagram on the inside of the door?

You could just wire it the way you want. With a test light and the help of a friend, find the wire that gets hot when you turn the ignition to start. It probably comes through the neutral safety switch. Make sure power goes to the ECU when you turn the key to the ON position. I doubt if that relay 5 is the starter relay although it may have something to do with the interlock. It's really quite simple to bypass all of those things. Once you find the wire that comes from IGNITION start hook it to wire that goes to starter solenoid through the neutral switch.

Another thought if that relay 5 is in the start circuit, you could probably energize it with the start wire from the ignition switch, providing the neutral switch is between it and the starter solenoid.

If you can post a really good picture of that wiring diagram perhaps we can read it. It would really be easier with the diagram

Dick
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Old 09-03-2016, 03:51 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhereinusa View Post
Just some quick observations. Isn't that the wiring diagram on the inside of the door?

You could just wire it the way you want. With a test light and the help of a friend, find the wire that gets hot when you turn the ignition to start. It probably comes through the neutral safety switch. Make sure power goes to the ECU when you turn the key to the ON position. I doubt if that relay 5 is the starter relay although it may have something to do with the interlock. It's really quite simple to bypass all of those things. Once you find the wire that comes from IGNITION start hook it to wire that goes to starter solenoid through the neutral switch.

Another thought if that relay 5 is in the start circuit, you could probably energize it with the start wire from the ignition switch, providing the neutral switch is between it and the starter solenoid.

If you can post a really good picture of that wiring diagram perhaps we can read it. It would really be easier with the diagram

Dick
Thanks for the advice!

Ill get a picture of the diagram up tomorrow. The diagram has not proven to be very helpfull because the font is too small to read. Also this bus has had some half-measure wiring repairs that have left it a mess.

Somthing seams weird with selonoid (5) when the key is in the accessory position three is power on both ends of the selonoid. However when i turn the key to start it the voltage drops to 0. I think it has somthing to do with the interlock.

Id like to just wire it up just like any other start (on my car there are 3 wires pos neg and ground) but there are 10 wires that go to the starter that i havent traced out yet. I suppose it could be somthing to do with the interlock once i trace them ill know. I would have no touble wiring the starter circuit but i need to know what else is getting power when the key is in the start position(why are there 7 extra wires at the starter?). Ive seen videos on here that show you how to jump out the emergency switches which looks a whole lot easier then tracing out all of these wires. I have tomorrow off so i will be spending the day working on this.

Wish me luck,
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
why are there 7 extra wires at the starter
If they are all going to the large terminal, they are just using that as a power (Bat+) tap to supply battery voltage.

It's probably wired something like this, may not have the small relay.


I think I'd turn the key on, and jump the solenoid at the starter to see if it starts. (Jump small terminal on solenoid to large terminal on solenoid.)
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:34 PM   #5
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This probably won't be much help, but I was having trouble with all my buzzers, killswitches and assorted crap, so I ended up tracing all the school wiring back to the panel and removing it. I started with this:



I would trace back a wire, remove it, then go start the bus, that way I could always go back and fix any issues. After removing about 100 lbs of wire I ended up with this:



As a bonus I also got rid of the vampire battery drain that was killing the batteries!
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Old 09-03-2016, 10:20 PM   #6
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When I saw the first photo of your fuse box, I thought for a second that it came from my bus, which looks EXCATLY like that. I also have a vampire drain on my bus, which I am now guessing is coming from that yellow box in the first photo. Thanks for the post it inspired me to finally tackle the same problem
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:18 AM   #7
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Here is a picture of the diagram. Im working on it today. I hope to figure it out soon! Ill keep you posted.

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Old 09-04-2016, 06:43 PM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Welp,

Another 6 hour day at the bus with no headway. I feel like a big dummy. I guess im kotbso good at bus wiring. I was really hoping just to jump the door switches out at the panel somewhere. On another thread i read about it. I just dont quite understamd how they work in guess. When then door is open the hot wire gets grounded (i think) so if i eliminate the switches it should start. Where is the flaw in my logic? I am so confused and defeated. I spent 6 hours with a meter in my hand and still am no closer to starting the bus.

I jumped the starter out. The starter moter spun but it didnt engage the starter to crank it over.

I feel so clueless its frustrating.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:53 PM   #9
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Our bus had similar door switches so we just unplugged the wire from
the switch and insulated the wire end so it couldn't ground and no more
problems with starting and running and no buzzers. One hint on bus
wiring if you look close at the wire you will see a number on the wire and
that corresponds with the numbers on the diagram and should be the
same circuit in the front or back of the bus. A pink wire with a trace number
27 will be the same in the front of the bus as the same color and trace in
the rear of the bus.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Know You Rider View Post
Welp,
. . .
I jumped the starter out. The starter moter spun but it didnt engage the starter to crank it over.

I feel so clueless its frustrating.
Wait. This tells me something right here. Are you saying the starter is spinning, but not engaging to turn over the engine? If so, you're chasing the wrong problem. This is not the sign of an electrical problem, it's the sign of a starter problem. This can happen to starters with age, wear, and corrosion.
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