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Old 05-31-2017, 05:14 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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It won't start

A little gremlin snuck in to my bus a few nights ago and ripped out the fuse panel above the drivers seat. (little gremlin = me being a dumbass)

When it was all said and done nothing on the back of the bus worked and it wouldn't start.

With some help I have managed to get the tail lights, brake lights, turn signals to work again but it still won't start. The starter simply does nothing. Best we can tell the interlock on the back door is engaged somehow and it will not allow the starter to ... uh ... well ... start the engine.

Can anyone please direct me to a schematic or wiring diagram? Has anyone simply removed the interlock? Can you disable it and just be done? Is it a physical thing or it programmed in to the computer?

Please help. Neither me or my mechanic can figure this thing out.

2005 Ford E450 6.0L Blue Bird 5 window shorty

Thanks!
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Old 05-31-2017, 06:21 PM   #2
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I had a e450 shuttle and the interlock is usually a solenoid , which is a high-amperage remote switch that prevents starter from getting current.

different colors/contacts, but barrel is cylinder about silver dollars sized



You can always trace starter big red wire backwards...
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Old 05-31-2017, 06:38 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
I had a e450 shuttle and the interlock is usually a solenoid , which is a high-amperage remote switch that prevents starter from getting current.

different colors/contacts, but barrel is cylinder about silver dollars sized



You can always trace starter big red wire backwards...
Well ... that would make sense. Problem is that what I suspect is the solenoid in question is sitting on my desk. ARGH!

So ... what do I do? Can we just wire the starter back in line with the ignition? I'm so screwed.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:29 PM   #4
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if you took that solenoid out from the fuse panel inside the bus then thats not your starter solenoid.. you CAN take the small wire from the starter solenoid and run it to your key but then yoiu defeat your transmission interlock.. you should at least keep that if you can.. but likely something isndie that panel above is disconnected..

that panel full of switches is fed power by way of that solenoid on your desk most likely.. which then goes to indicidual circuit breaks on a rail or fuses..

likely you yanked the wires out from one of the emergency hatches or rear E-door, and that is interlocking you..
-Christopher
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:15 PM   #5
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Why would a gremlin cut out an entire panel in the first place?

I think you should just put everything back as it was, wire for wire. If the wires are short use butt splices with heat shrink once you know the connections are correct.

John
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:33 PM   #6
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
Why would a gremlin cut out an entire panel in the first place?

I think you should just put everything back as it was, wire for wire. If the wires are short use butt splices with heat shrink once you know the connections are correct.

John
I thought we covered the fact that I ... I mean the gremlin is a dumb ass.

The panel is gone. It will never be put back in place. Ain't gonna happen. Couldn't do it if my life depended on it.

There is a wire harness that comes from the back of the bus. There are wire harnesses that come up from under the bus behind the drivers seat. There is a wire harness that comes from the passenger side, over the windshield. There is a wire harness that runs from the passenger side to the control panel for the stop sign etc.

The wire harness from the back has had the big connector removed and we have identified all of the wires. We have been able to trace and identify SOME of the wires in the harness that comes up from behind the drivers seat. We have reconnected the brake lights, turn signals, back up lights, and turn signals. These wires are connected with splice connectors.

The only thing that no longer works is the starter. I was assuming that the kill switch in the back door being disconnected was the cause. It does seem plausible that the solenoid that was in the wire cabinet COULD be the culprit. I just don't know at this point.

I'm thinking the best we can do is follow the power cables from the starter to battery.

I've been looking for a wiring diagram that shows how the starter is wired but I have had no luck and or do not understand what I'm looking at. Probably number 2.

If nothing else I think I figured out how to jump start the starter to get the bus running. Maybe. We'll see.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:50 PM   #7
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Do you have any instrument lights, gauges, idiot lights when you turn the key to start?
If you have a voltage tester, check right at the starter. Most starter solenoids are attached right at the starter. These will be the smaller gauge wires, not the big cables on the starter. Those smaller wires will become hot when the key is turned to start only. They might be marked "S" and "R".
Check voltage on both to a good clean ground.
This is only the beginning to understand what's the problem.
Sounds like you did good on the tailights etc, some relief for now.
Well, back at it!

John
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:10 PM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
Do you have any instrument lights, gauges, idiot lights when you turn the key to start?
If you have a voltage tester, check right at the starter. Most starter solenoids are attached right at the starter. These will be the smaller gauge wires, not the big cables on the starter. Those smaller wires will become hot when the key is turned to start only. They might be marked "S" and "R".
Check voltage on both to a good clean ground.
This is only the beginning to understand what's the problem.
Sounds like you did good on the tailights etc, some relief for now.
Well, back at it!

John
I broke it good but am making some sense of it all with some help.

A simple circuit tester and some help has made the work go much quicker! I don't see how I could have possibly done this on my own. I just can't be in two places at once. Tomorrow I start with the starter. I'll get it licked one way or another.

If I understand what I want to do is put the key in the ignition and set to on.
Get under the bus and find the starter, should be up under the space where the passenger seat would be.
With the circuit tester test the leads. Circuit tester attached to ground of course.
I have a multi meter and will see if I can get a reading from the power leads on the starter.
Hope.
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:42 AM   #9
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There are starter solenoids and there are interlock solenoids that prevent the current even going to starter solenoid. Conditions have to be right to energize circuit. On my 2006 e450, there was also a solenoid under where the cup holders go to control energizing chair-ramp system.

He said he has a solenoid on his desk- what is that for?

So, check for power at starter- check all the bolts with wires, take a phone pic to post and label which have DC voltage and how much.

look on firewall for this guy




here is starter solenoid

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Old 06-01-2017, 09:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zizzer View Post
I broke it good but am making some sense of it all with some help.

A simple circuit tester and some help has made the work go much quicker! I don't see how I could have possibly done this on my own. I just can't be in two places at once. Tomorrow I start with the starter. I'll get it licked one way or another.

If I understand what I want to do is put the key in the ignition and set to on.
Get under the bus and find the starter, should be up under the space where the passenger seat would be.
With the circuit tester test the leads. Circuit tester attached to ground of course.
I have a multi meter and will see if I can get a reading from the power leads on the starter.
Hope.
You almost have the idea. Have someone in the driver seat turn the key to start, not just the on position. You have to get under the bus for the test. Have the parking brake set and out of gear for safety.
Just be safe in case things start turning over and be ready to keep your hands clear of everything. The noise, should it turn over, will likely scare the heck out of you so expect it.
If no good results, the post with the starter solenoid remotely mounted is the next step. While under there you should clean all those connections up nice and clean and shiney. Well worth the time spent. Disconnect the batteries of course to do this cleaning part.
Good luck, you'll get it eventually.

John
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:33 PM   #11
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use a test light its visual and no doubt
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:32 PM   #12
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
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General update:
I can't seem to find the starter. I'll look again tomorrow and try to take some pictures. I may just take a step back from wiring and lay the floor. The boards and such are in the way. I can string some conduit and be able to tidy the wiring once we get it all sorted.

Much of today was spent getting the house ready for another weekend of showings. The counters are clean and the hardwoods have been polished. I get to wake up at the crack of dawn, spend several hours mowing the lawn then strangers will come and kick me out of my house. Blargh ...

Time to figure out how to post pictures. There's a sticky around here somewhere.
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