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Old 05-31-2017, 11:39 AM   #1
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LOW EMF for solar bus

has anyone done a solar installation with low emf considerations? if so, i'd love to know your thoughts and methods.

you can spare me the usual tin-foil-hat-government-conspiracy-alien-invasion comments. i've already heard them all, but if you just can't resist, go ahead.

moving on... i'm using isolated ground MC wiring for the AC side and running the DC in metal conduit which all needs to be grounded separately. "earth grounded". how would you (someone with electrical savvy) perform these multiple grounds on the bus?

any recommendations, thoughts, insights, would be very much appreciated! thank you in advance.
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:59 AM   #2
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has anyone done a solar installation with low emf considerations?
Probably a response to ignore...

I don't know enough about EMF to know what I created in my coach and really have no response of any value. However; I do wonder how you affordably measure EMF (short of hiring someone with a spectrum analyzer) to measure your changes or detect if you've hit a "problem" point??
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:22 PM   #3
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So no induction cooktop for you, huh?

This is a subject I've tried to research previously but there just isn't much information available. Then there are these induction cooktops and other appliances that seem to openly emit EMF.

EMF has been a topic here in the past but there's simply not enough information available. Induction cooktops and microwave cooking are popular because they reportedly save energy.

In your case it seems trying to shield the low power solar wiring as well as the batteries would be next to impossible.

Obviously our government thinks everything is fine with EMF radiation, while other governments take precautions. So, the question is what do you know about EMF?
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KerryBeth1985 View Post
has anyone done a solar installation with low emf considerations? if so, i'd love to know your thoughts and methods.

you can spare me the usual tin-foil-hat-government-conspiracy-alien-invasion comments. i've already heard them all, but if you just can't resist, go ahead.

moving on... i'm using isolated ground MC wiring for the AC side and running the DC in metal conduit which all needs to be grounded separately. "earth grounded". how would you (someone with electrical savvy) perform these multiple grounds on the bus?

any recommendations, thoughts, insights, would be very much appreciated! thank you in advance.
Are you trying to shield yourself from detection? Or from an emf threat? Because those topics appear interesting.

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Old 05-31-2017, 01:16 PM   #5
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Those discussions have been on here before, including how to turn your bus into a fairaday cage.

We seem to have a shortage of physicists on this site.
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:53 PM   #6
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Biologic effects shown hundreds of times over from ELF EMF’s

  1. Altered chronobiology leading to stress response
  2. CNS direct effects showing slowing of molecular actions and reaction speeds.
  3. Poor short term memory, headaches, and altered sleep
  4. Poor exploration of the local environment, motivation waning
  5. Altered EEG readings consistent with a general anesthesia pattern
  6. Permeable BBB and gut, with increased glucose metabolism
  7. Increase in tumorgenesis due to fragility of RNA and DNA directly
  8. Russians repeated showed low dose microwaves directly caused hypothalamic damage.
  9. Increase excitability at neuronal synapses
  10. Microwaves disrupt electron chain transport in mitochondria of rat brain. (Duke University)
  11. Pulsed EMF’s at lower frequencies directly inhibit firing rates of neurons (UCLA)
  12. Depression and suicide rate correlating with EMF power lines above and below ground (magnetic fields avg 22% higher suicide rates)
  13. Raised RBC’s WBC’s, Platelets, Hemoglobin, and HCT
  14. Leptin resistance and altered hormone panels. Sex steroids, Vitamin D, melatonin, IGF and PRL levels altered.
  15. Immune disruption leading to over active, under active, and autoimmune conditions.
So I ask you once again, watch the video after the first four EMF blogs and tell me are we really wrong; and is CTIA really correct?

What EMF level is considered safe? - Exposure level guidelines
Michael R


Ok, I think my synaptic responses are slowing down. Probably my wifi.
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:05 PM   #7
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Biologic effects shown hundreds of times over from ELF EMF’s
...snip...
Ok, I think my synaptic responses are slowing down. Probably my wifi.
Pure BS. There is NO evidence for any of this. There is plenty of evidence that environmental levels of electric and magnetic fields are completely attenuated by skin, with no skin damage whatsoever. Have any idea how intense the fields are in an MRI, an X-RAY or a microwave oven?

The folks that come up with this are in it for their egos or money.

Stop worrying about this and start living.
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:31 PM   #8
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eh, i'm good with regular ole voltage meters or a simple AM radio to detect disturbances. i don't need a Gauss Meter or the like.
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:34 PM   #9
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Damn. Woo in skoolie. What next? Chemtrails?

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Old 05-31-2017, 03:40 PM   #10
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*facepalm* i am simply uninterested in an on-line debate about whether or not EMF is a health issue or not, conspiracy theories, or the like. it's sad when threads degrade to this sort of thing and ultimately a waste of valuable time and energy turning an electrical question into a drama fest, in which i have zero interest.

no, i am not trying to shield myself. yes, EMF (under certain conditions) pose a health risk.

the big risk with solar is the inverter. it, like the induction range, produces large amounts of EMF when it changes DC to AC by chopping up the clean wave. i wish to keep large amounts of EMF from the interior of my very tiny living space. my original question was about grounding conduits and therefore creating a system with multiple grounds.

if we could stick to that, that would be great. but, if not, no worries. answers will come.
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:41 PM   #11
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yep. didn't take long for this to digress into the composing toilet did it?
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:52 PM   #12
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for those actually wanting information, there's no need to shield AGM batteries. they do not off-gas or produce EMF or dirty electricity. DC current is 100% clean until it hits an appliance or an inverter. the biggest EMF producer on a solar system is the inverter which, yes, i will likely shield since i am in such a small space. if it were 50 yards away, i wouldn't sweat it, but it's 10 feet from where I sleep. metal conduit needs a separate ground.

i've read from several sources that twisting the wires will dramatically reduce electric AND magnetic fields as well.
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Old 05-31-2017, 04:35 PM   #13
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I got a little lost trying to follow this - but I do have a question. Is it worth just having everything on a 12V system - Everything I have so far runs on 12V - I haven't figured out how to get AC - or cooling - beyond the roof vent I will install...
Maybe just a small inverter for the computer. But I may have missed the point.

I want to run everything off the solar / battery bank (so far only one battery - but a heavy duty deep cycle) - I have led and fans that run off the bus battery - and then another set of led and fans to run off the solar... I may have complicated things - I originally wanted to be able to tie it all in together - but I ran out of time.

Is there any reason to not keep everything 12V - and eliminate a big inverter?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KerryBeth1985 View Post
for those actually wanting information, there's no need to shield AGM batteries. they do not off-gas or produce EMF or dirty electricity. DC current is 100% clean until it hits an appliance or an inverter. the biggest EMF producer on a solar system is the inverter which, yes, i will likely shield since i am in such a small space. if it were 50 yards away, i wouldn't sweat it, but it's 10 feet from where I sleep. metal conduit needs a separate ground.

i've read from several sources that twisting the wires will dramatically reduce electric AND magnetic fields as well.
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Old 05-31-2017, 04:38 PM   #14
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KerryBeth1985; I've never seen anyone switch horses so quickly. You start a thread specifically asking about "LOW EMF for solar bus" then try to align yourself with the first person to call EMF bullshirt. Then you balk at easily available research likening that to a toilet. You know what you can do with your EMF.

Newbs, this is a place for discussion. The title was EMF, like it or not. OP, pick a side and stay on that side until your research teaches you something different.
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Old 05-31-2017, 04:39 PM   #15
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I tried not to respond to this...........

Just how much EMF do you think a low voltage & (relatively) low current DC system such as solar panels are going to generate? When compared with what we are already surrounded by I would expect it to be minute.

I have read quite a bit on the subject. It caught my attention back in the late 70's and I have read off & on over the years and, personally, do not have any significant worries about health issues.

I do get concerned when the doctor suggest that I get my 5th CAT scan in less than a year.

Household/RV electrical systems creating EMF related health issues?? I personally do not believe that there is any real risk.
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Old 05-31-2017, 04:45 PM   #16
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While I get where you're coming from, the question of whether it is harmful or not is relevant to the discussion as if it is not actually harmful a response isn't even warranted, as it's illogical. That being said I have no idea.
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Old 05-31-2017, 06:06 PM   #17
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Most of the information available is from Russian studies. Their EMF threshold is 10% of the American threshold. I have no idea if we're biologically damaged or not from this.

I was just shocked that someone else came here and called EMF bullshirt without backing up the opinion in any way. Then the OP switched sides also calling EMF BS.

Perhaps EMF is BS. Personally I don't know. If the OP wants to learn about EMF, then that's what this thread is about as much as possible. So far we have Russian EMF standards, and then there's opinions without substantiation.

This subject has been discussed thourally on this site a few months back when inductive hot plates were the subject. Check those for EMF.
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:08 PM   #18
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There is a product that is used in clinical areas such as dentist offices. They screw it to the studs after insulating. It is lead sheeting about 3/16" thick and you cut the roll for length. Mostly used for xray equipment. Not sure of price or availability but it must help.
For conduit, if using pvc, pull a seeparate ground in each pipe and connect it with the receptacle ground and then to a ground bussbar of copper tied to the frame of the bus.
If using EMT conduit, don't count on the connectors and couplings for a decent ground. For both types of conduit #14 green is the standard ground size.
If you want to use rigid conduit it does not need a ground in it if installed properly. Screw every bit of it up tight and you are good. Tighten all locknuts tight in the boxes, panel etc.
Twisting wires as you say only creates other problems, heat, the loss of being able to remove a conductor out of a bundle. I would say no to that aspect. It also creates strange fields that can interfere with other circuits.
My 2 cents.

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Old 05-31-2017, 11:59 PM   #19
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The US Navy did a study on EMF effects decades ago. It determined that virtually all frequencies and power levels have some measure of biological impact. They did it because so many FCT's (Fire Control Technicians) were dying of various cancers. The cause in their case was radar but the study discovered that relatively small amounts over time have negative impact at the cellular and DNA level. And that was long before the advent of cell phones and microwave towers and such. They also found that because there are so many frequencies in the environment that unintended secondary frequencies were being formed making it almost impossible to study outside of a controlled environment. Just like when two musical notes form a third.

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Old 06-01-2017, 09:48 AM   #20
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EMF.... Twisting wires will reduce emitted EMF and also receiving EMF. with other words in case of an EMP twisted wires will pick up less energy then non twisted wires.

With DC currents there is no EMF , the frequency component is missing. The magnetic component is there. Twisting wires will help there also as to cancel out the fields.

If you use an inverter in a metal box and with a low frequency ( 60 Hz) transformer like OUTBACK 3648 ( 48 vdc)you will generate less EMF since the transformer is a very effective filter, again both in as out.
Direct switching inverter use much smaller transformers at a higher frequency ( 40 Khz and higher). They invert 12 volt to 200 vdc and then use a second switcher that makes 60 Hz at 120 vac. Advantage is higher efficiency and lower weight.

The lowest EMf is probably coming from a rotary inverter. ( 12 VDc motor direct coupled to 120 VAC alternator. You have to keep the brushes in good shape and or put it into a metal box. A system like that since it has a mechanical nature is almost completely EMP proof.

Running wires in metal conduit is a very good idea, for EMF and EMP protections but also against rodents and fire.

The common thought about grounding is that you want to create one common point.

If you are inside the bus and you create your own EMF inside as well then grounding to earth is no use and you can only shield yourself or better use conduit as you mentioned . It is important that connection from conduit to boxes are properly made. Clamping connections are better then then the style with a setscrew.

As said before DC is better and for cooking a normal electric heater/ water cooker etc is fine. Water cooker is very efficient as the heat is generated inside the medium.

Microwaves are not that efficient in there conversion at all but they are fast.

It is good to at least think about all these things

Later J
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