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Old 11-26-2019, 11:38 AM   #21
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
I think the parts list you have picked out all up the right alley, but I would suggest some changes.

Inverter:

The one you have picked out looks like a standard run of the mill highfrequency inverter.

It says so right here in the product description.

The PCB thickness is 2.00mm, allow the stronger current floating on the circuit, increase the load capacity. High frequency transformer to transfer DC to AC, ensure the stable and full AC output


These tend to be over-rated so if you actually expect 3KW AC power out of the inverter it will live a short life.
What I had suggested when we were talking was to look for a LOW FREQUENCY inverter.

My experience with the low frequency inverters is that they tend to be rated pretty close to their continuous duty power potential, and are more robust in general

Their drawbacks include :
Weight, the Low Frequency inverter weights double to triple the more compact high frequency unit.

Standby efficiency. The unit I'm about to suggest draws 50W on standby. To some people this may be an unacceptably high parasitic power draw. High frequency units also draw standby power, but it is typically less around 15-40w.

What the impact of this is that if you go to sleep at 8pm, and get up at 6am, during those 10 hours where your inverter has been on you will have consumed 500W of power from your battery pack just to have the inverter on.

What I do is typically I shut off the inverter if Im not using A/C power, since most of my other devices like lights and fans are D/C powered, and that is on always.


My suggestion, especially since you're planning to run one ( and later possibly two ) Airconditioning units would be to go with a LF inverter. I suspect that the HF unit that you sent a link too would manage one AC unit but It would either struggle with two or it would work for a while ( few days to maybe a year at most ) but then die.

Here is an example of a Low frequency inverter. Similar to what I use, successfully with AirCon and induction electric cooking.

https://www.amazon.com/9000watts-Inv...2-catcorr&th=1

What I would love to suggest to you, and to buy myself for my next setup is a unit like this.

https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Char...al&sr=1-1&th=1

6000W split phase. it is pricey though....



CHARGE CONTROLER:

The unit I had suggested was an EPever Tracer MPPT 100V 40A unit.
The one you found isn't identical but is MPPT, so that's great.
Im not sure if the link you sent directed me to the correct item from the little drop down menu in Amazon. But you need to make sure you select one with
a high enough input voltage, and as high an output amp rating as you can afford$$ For example, your batteries you selected are 200AH. So a 20A solar charge controller would need 10 hours to recharge them. This is not ideal because peak solar power does not exist for 10 hours a day. Additionally, like with any electrical component, running it at max output every day is likely to reduce it's reliability. I would spec a 40A minumum, with a 60 or 70 being even better.
So like this one, same brand just higher rating

(https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Smart...861616475&th=1)



Panels.

I like the panels you chose. I will mention that you can find panels cheaper than what you have there ( 280$ a panel ). If you have the time look around on the used market or classifides for left over panels froma home residential install, or mismatched panels from a warehouse. Call some solar company installers and ask if they have any "scrach and dent" or " mismatched" panels available. Often they will. I got 330W panels, with some scratched glass, for 160$ each. If you do not have the time to hunt for deals, then order the ones you listed. They are fine.

We do need to buy the right amount though.

For example, those panels have a Open circuit voltage of 45.1V. This is from the data sheet. 5 panels connected in series, would create 221V. This is beyond the acceptable range of your solar charge controler and would damage it. So you can not connect 5 panels in series. If you want the power output of 5 panels, ( 1750W ) you would need to connect them in paralel. Probably in two sets, I.e two in series, for a voltage of 90V, and then a second set next to them wired in parallel.

In this case buying an odd number of panels is not going to work.

I like the ones you have, but I would say buy 4.

You may be surprised with how much power you get out of them, even 1400W from 4 panels is very respectable power output.

Batteries.

for a 24V system two of those in series is a good option. You mentioned wanting to expand power storage in the future, so you could buy two more in the future to double your capacity.

An odd number of batteries, doesn't make sense as the voltages need to add up to 24V

In an ideal world you buy 4 6V batteries, but a properly designed system, where wire resistances are properly established, and where the charging cable is configured correctly, can use parallel batteries just fine.
Read this link for a discussion of chargers and parralel v.s series connections. As well as a few " what not to do" senarios.

https://www.nyc-arecs.org/batt1.pdf


Miscellaneous stuff not in your shopping list.

Solar pannel conectors, with 4 pannels you will need a variety of connectors to wire all this. Solar panels use their own special plugs, not available in most electrical isels at the store.

These are the plugs, I don't know how many you may need.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H1M8ASE..._21v3Db5M70M7V

And this is the double gang connector you would use to pass the cable down through your roof. You would need two of these, if you wire the two sets in parallel like I'd mentioned earlier.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GDH2TTV..._01v3DbMPQV3BG


Brackets to mount the solar panels

I used these, minimum 4 per panel. Drilled through the roof with 1/4 X 20 bolts.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You may have some DIY bracket solution, but I was satisfied with these.

Circuit breakers / fuses

We will discuss the exact locations and key rating of the fusing once you can get me a list of your anticipated devices and their wattage ratings.

But expect to buy between 2 and 4 of these

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and a smaller fuse box sort of like this for distributing the power.

https://www.amazon.com/WUPP-Blade-Wa...motive&sr=1-10


Wire

We will talk about wire. The battery wire will be the greatest cost as it will be the largest guage. Placing the inverter and the batterys as close together as possible will be reuce the cost of the wire.

Keep in mind placing your batteries outside the living space is a good safety move to prevent possible gasses, fire, from hurting you in the event of a battery faliure.


Not listed, Propane generator?

I have done a few solar setups for folks and the most common problem is simply having all your eggs in one basket. Consider a generator like this...

https://www.amazon.com/Sportsman-GEN...A9SAA3ACRT03N1

Having a generator would mean you could get away with smaller batteries, and less panels...
The propane ones are not stinky and run cleaner than gasoline.
I you want to get fancy you can get one with automatic starting that would kick in whenever your battery voltages get too low. But you could retrofit any generator to do that with some fairly basic microcontroler and a DIY electric start.

With florida, a 35-40ft bus, and the desire to have a dog survive inside, you need reliable power for that A/C unit. One Unit will keep your dog alive but still struggle to actually cool it down inside. Two units would do the job, but your talking 2KW power consumption on those alone.
If it were my dog I would also consider passive ways that the dog could stay cool, like a 40 gallon water tank under your bed or something where the dog could hang out next to it and stay cool even if the A/C went out...


TLDR:

Panels, good choice, buy 4, dont buy 5.

Solar charge controler, good choice, make sure to buy the right one from that drop down menu.

Batteries, good choice, buy em, don't buy 3, buy 2 and then buy more later if desired.

Inverter, Would work for now, but in my option bad choice over the long term with your goals. Look for a LOW FREQUENCY unit. 3000W mimum if you want to run dual AirCon units.

Miscellaneous stuff isn't in your budget yet and I would guess that between breakers(80-150), electrical junction box (50-150), wire ( 100-400, depends a lot on your layout ) and various connectors and terminals ( 150-250 ) you still have anywhere from 380 -950 $ of expenses not accounted for.



I'll check in with you or you have my cell if you want to follow up.

Anyone else please feel free to chime in with your suggestions.

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Old 11-26-2019, 12:28 PM   #22
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 44
Js,

As usual, I really appreciate the help! We are trying to buy our electronics and plumbing new. After that, everything is second hand/everything from our home.

Inverter: Switched to the less expensive one you posted. I apologize about posting the wrong one. Must have switched when I sent it over or something.

Controller: Found the EpEver Tracer 150v/60A 12/24/36/48v. Sorry about that.

Panels: They require to order 6 at a time, but do not charge for shipping. Figured I could keep the one or two I'm not using in storage for more power or to repair a panel.

Generator: We are hawking the Holiday shopping market for one. Generators love going on sale for Thanksgiving.

Batteries: They require me to order 3 batteries at the minimum. I'll order 4 and use 2 for now.

The miscellaneous supplies that I did not list is due to making sure I have all major hardware correct. Then, I'll start ordering everything you mentioned.

Thank you again!!!
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Old 11-26-2019, 12:51 PM   #23
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
I understand about the minimum orders.

If you're going to buy 6 panels then you might as well install all of them. The 150V Epever unit ( or any 150V charge controler ) could do up to three panels in series, and that is what I would suggest. Three in series, and then two sets, for a total of 150V @ 22ish Amps input . The only catch there is that the charge controler will only ever produce the 60A output to the batteries, meaning that you will be able to utilize a maximum 240W out of your 375W Panels.

This sounds like an inefficiency, but honestly, with flat panels that do not tilt, I have never gotten full rated max power out of a panel, except maybe one or two perfect days in June. And 1440W of charging power is enough to run both those AirCon units ( and draw maybe another 600W from the battery ), or to recharge your whole battery pack in about 7 hours. This is a serious power setup and at this point you pretty much have as much power available as a house, so inefficiency may not matter to you as much past a certain point. What is nice is that with the over-spec panels you will hardly notice any reduced power on cloudy days or low angle sun winter days. Because even on a cloudy day the 375W panel would produce about 240W


You're welcome!
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Old 11-26-2019, 01:04 PM   #24
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
Here is the mini split I installed.
I bought it on sale at $620 in May.

https://www.sogoodtobuy.com/12000-bt...ner-senl-12cd/

In a well insulated space it does alright. It's the most powerufll unit I could find on 120V

Two of them would do amazing in my 29ft bus, and probably fine in a larger bus also.

The heat pump option is nice. I can run this as my primary heat until about 35 degrees outside. Then I fire up the stove and shut off the heat pump.
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Old 11-27-2019, 08:42 PM   #25
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 44
Js,

I appreciate the knowledge! It is very nice to know that I have enough power for two AC units to protect my pup during extreme heat days. I'll be ordering all of this in the next couple of days then!

Enjoy your holiday!!!!

Thank you. Seriously.
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:37 PM   #26
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 44
Holiday Fun

Hey Everyone!

Sorry about not keeping up with the post. We ordered everything and it is all here!!!! Definitely excited. Check out our goodies.

P17 340w Sunpower Solar Sanels
AN Type MPPT Solar Charge Controller 60A
3000w/9000w Low Frequency Inverter
Apex 200Ah Batteries (Not Pictured)
Attached Thumbnails
78158780_2460984047506872_9138999495973928960_n.jpg   78603833_608109493328540_7838059395278700544_n.jpg   79942689_2495628154059366_5551312476382953472_n (1).jpg  
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:53 PM   #27
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mt Vernon, WA
Posts: 523
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Bluebird, Collins
Chassis: G30 Bluebird Microbird, E350 Shuttle Bus
Engine: 1995 Chevrolet 350, 1992 Ford 460
That should do the trick. Nice panels!! Hope none got damaged in shipping.
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:05 AM   #28
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
Nice!

I would like to see those batteries. Don't blow your back out carrying them.
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:16 AM   #29
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
DC fuse panel. For your listed circuits this should do.
You don't need to shield the DC devices in a metal box AC circuits because the 24V DC will not hurt you.

https://www.amazon.com/Expandable-LE...omotive&sr=1-6



For A/C circuits you will need to assemble your own panel
Something like this. The exact box and shape and size is up to you.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...RBCP/100071456

You also need a combiner box the PV array.

This one would do.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-Panel...d/143283184249

You could build something similar, or look for a cheaper one. But it's gotta be fused or otherwise you will need to install inline fuses ( not a big deal but more work )


Up next you're going to need to do a layout of where your devices will be and purchase wire.

Try to keep your batteries and the inverter close. They will need to be connected by 2/0 guage wire. And that stuff is not cheap.

https://www.amazon.com/Ancor-Marine-...M9Z&th=1&psc=1
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:40 AM   #30
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mt Vernon, WA
Posts: 523
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Bluebird, Collins
Chassis: G30 Bluebird Microbird, E350 Shuttle Bus
Engine: 1995 Chevrolet 350, 1992 Ford 460
I have never bought retail price battery cable. I get new remnants at the metal recycler scrap yard. And I found a $50 fuse block for the inverter.
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:51 AM   #31
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
Here is a rough schematic I drew up of how you should connect and wire your devices.

You will see that we are working with only the positive side of all the DC components. All negatives are grounded to the bus chassis or body. Including the PV. This will save you on wire, and reduce voltage drop since the bus chassis generally has less resistance than even 2/0 gauge wire
These ground connections will need to be cleaned with a wire brush or sand paper, in order to ensure a good connection throughout the system.

Some devices you dont yet have, like the thermal breakers. Lets make sure that dual 150A breakers will be able to supply your desired loads, especially the Mini split units. You may have to go higher. If the breakers are going to be mounted in a warm place, like in sunlight or against the hot metal bus body. They will trip at less amps than 150. So in that case you may want to go with 200A breakers.

You will need to make sure that the resistance of the wiring to the breakers is "Balanced" or else you will trip one breaker at 150A before the other breaker is carrying its full capable power. Keeping the wire from the battery to the breakers as short as possible will help, after that we could adjust the length of the wire such that both breakers trip near simultaneously. Bit of trial end error will be needed here.

I can hit you up and explain some other aspects of the schematic if it is unclear to you.

Your original wire gauge estimates were very good.
I used this page as reference for ampacity rating to select the wire.
https://www.cerrowire.com/products/r...pacity-charts/

And I used this calculator to calculate voltage drop on your Solar converter cabling.
https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html

Note that if your wire from the solar charge converter to the 2/0 guage inverter ( or directly to the battery ) is longer than 12 ft, you will need to go with a 4 guage wire rather than 6. This is to keep voltage drop between the MPPT and the batteries under 0.5V. Ideally you want zero, but a voltage drop greater than 0.5V will fool your charger into going into float charge mode before your batteries have accepted a full charge. This can be sort of mitigated with settings in the charger, but it is best to run short cable and larger gauge to avoid this problem entirely.



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Old 12-04-2019, 11:54 AM   #32
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 169
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: Tc2000
Engine: 5.9 24v
Rated Cap: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktari View Post
I have never bought retail price battery cable. I get new remnants at the metal recycler scrap yard. And I found a $50 fuse block for the inverter.
That is a great idea!

I seldom buy new cable either. Lots of sources where cable can be sources for cheap.
For example, my bus came with electric wheelchair lift and had mega 4/0 cable running the whole length of the bus to that lift. So I have re-purposed it for the inverter.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:31 PM   #33
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 44
Continued

Js,

Awesome. Going over it tonight. I am building a platform for the batteries to go under the bus, just shy of 10ft total. Battery wires will be covered and zipped to the body under the bus until the destination. I built a wall for my electronics. I thought about putting it on the metal body, but decided to line it with an anti-static mat unless I shouldn't. I'll order the appropriate wires tonight that I know for sure won't change, along with everything else you listed.

Is there a page 3 that I do not see?

Dok,

You got the deals on where to go!! I found my panels through a wholesale local guy. Super nice guy/products.

Thank you all!
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:11 PM   #34
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 44
Hey all!

Hope the week has treated everyone well. I finished my skeleton officially. The individual who had the bus installed didn't level out what he installed, so our stuff looks a little goofy due to making everything level lol But rest assured, Nothing is moving unless we get hit. I'm installing all equipment, minus wiring, this weekend. After this weekend I will have plumbing, and almost all electrical done. Then, all that is left is put the walls and insulation up!!!

Js,

My bus came with two 24v system Mini Splits. They have their own J box EACH and I will take a picture for you tomorrow. Also, I started sorting out the electrical. I will post a picture of that tomorrow as well. It is a complete 24v system. Would I need to simply just detach it from the bus system and wire in those Jboxs to my solar system? There is one in the front of the bus, and there is one in the back of the bus.

As usual, I appreciate any and all help. Thank you all for taking your time to help.
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:28 PM   #35
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 44
Hey all!

Have everything in stock finally. Had some fun shipping adventures with some of my supplies. I'll be adding everything into the bus by Sunday!!!!! Very excited to get our bus going. She is looking like a beaut with the insulation, then walls in! Will be posting pictures. Been very very busy with bus construction and life.

Thank you all!
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:54 PM   #36
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mt Vernon, WA
Posts: 523
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Bluebird, Collins
Chassis: G30 Bluebird Microbird, E350 Shuttle Bus
Engine: 1995 Chevrolet 350, 1992 Ford 460
Lots of good progress. What are you doing with the window behind the box.
It will become evident where to place components as you get into it. Enjoy. I really like assembling solar especially.
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Old 12-13-2019, 07:17 PM   #37
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 44
Doktari,

I have it insulated and up to the top of the box.

I Literally have to use my car jack to boost up my 650lbs worth of batteries LOL It is raining where I am at in Florida, but Sunday I will have everything installed, minus wiring. Very excited.

Js really is an amazing guy. He helped me with this whole process.

Will be posting more pictures shortly!!
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:48 PM   #38
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mt Vernon, WA
Posts: 523
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Bluebird, Collins
Chassis: G30 Bluebird Microbird, E350 Shuttle Bus
Engine: 1995 Chevrolet 350, 1992 Ford 460
That’s a lot of weight but it’s a bus. It can handle it.
I’ll second what Js mentioned about keeping the DC wiring balanced, short as possible, and sized correctly.
I’m not clear how you do battery terminals if the terminals are on top and it’s under a bus? Are they side terminals? How much clearance is there above the batteries?
Thanks.
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Old 12-13-2019, 09:49 PM   #39
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 44
Doktari,

Buses, I'm learning, are amazing. Our towing capacity will allow us to set up a hitch for my GF's car. I'm buying a Zero motorcycle and selling my 03 turbo zx3 (anyone in Florida want the most fun reliable 28 mpg turbo car?). The motorcycle will be mounted on the back with a hoist style system.

The batteries will be boxed, vented, under the bus. There will be enough space to give the batteries about a 8 inch clearance. I moved some stuff around, and the batteries will only be about 5 feet from the inverter. Js has helped me with this situation, as I am no expert in the in-depth electrical department. I will be consulting with him with the gauge as I continue. The rain has pushed us back, but we have everything in except the wiring. I'll be sending pictures of my setup come Sunday, as I anticipate everything being nearly installed by that point.

Thank you for your input! Can never have enough questions/reminders when it comes to this subject.
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Old 12-18-2019, 10:09 AM   #40
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 44
Hey all!

After numerous days of remodeling and ensuring we have all supplies, I'm bringing all my supplies on the bus and getting my wiring today! Wow, what a fun and tedious project. I will be uploading pictures of Shelly, the bus, today and tomorrow. I apologize for the delay. Prior Back and Neck injuries have been slowing me down, but she is looking like a BEAUT. Only one entire leak on the bus. Using silicone on bolts I am putting through the roof to ensure it has sealed. Used to do roofwork, Humane Wildlife Removal, and silicone worked amazingly for when I had to seal small holes due to animal damage.
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