Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-14-2019, 02:28 PM   #1
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 7,969
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
Shore Power Connection

How does the SP tie into the breaker box. I assume a breaker before it enters the box to shut it off the system?
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2019, 04:23 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 5,349
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
If your load center has a main breaker position then you would connect your shore/generator power to the main breaker.

If it does not have a main breaker position, you can add a breaker and feed your shore/generator through that breaker.

Are you going with 30 amps or 50 amps service?
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2019, 04:40 PM   #3
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 7,969
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
If your load center has a main breaker position then you would connect your shore/generator power to the main breaker.

If it does not have a main breaker position, you can add a breaker and feed your shore/generator through that breaker.

Are you going with 30 amps or 50 amps service?
30amp, I would go to another breaker.
Do breakers need to be enclosed in a box? The breakers for the solar are often shown just snap on a rail, exposed. I suppose 30amp needs to be closed for safety? I may add a small junction bos, as the SP line came in about a foot short of the breaker box, I might be able to relocate the box to accommodate.
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2019, 04:46 PM   #4
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 5,349
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
They do need to be enclosed.

You may simply bring your shore power into the load center and connect it through a 30a breaker.
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2019, 05:07 PM   #5
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 7,969
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
They do need to be enclosed.

You may simply bring your shore power into the load center and connect it through a 30a breaker.
And how does it tie into the other breakers? Pics for referance.
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2019, 06:32 PM   #6
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 323
Year: 1999
Coachwork: American Cargo 14'L x 7'8"W x 7'H Box
Chassis: Ford E350 Cutaway
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 11500 lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
And how does it tie into the other breakers? Pics for referance.
The load center has copper bus bars where the breakers snap onto. The other side of the breaker has a screw terminal where you connect the wire to. A breaker does not care whether the wire goes to a load or to a power source; it's AC anyway.

Your main breaker will have a wire going to the shore hookup and clamps onto the bus bar. All breakers for the loads feed from the bus bar and conduct the current into the wires to the respective loads.

Keep in mind that breakers are there to protect the wires from overload. Therefore, the wires must be sufficiently thick for the rating of the breaker and the length of the wire.
alpine44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2019, 07:43 PM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
roach711's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, Mi (Detroit area)
Posts: 1,851
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Eldorado Aerotech 24'
Chassis: Ford E-450 Cutaway Bus
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 19
All good info in the above posts.

I you're going to have AC and DC in your conversion consider using a combined AC/DC power panel. They usually have AC breakers, DC fuses and an AC/DC converter with a built in battery charger and will really simplify your wiring. We have a Progressive Dynamics 4045 power panel and it's been a good choice for us.

If you choose to go with separate AC and DC panels your AC panel needs to be a branch panel with separate ground and neutral bus bars. This is basic residential AC wiring and many tutorials can be found on Youtube or online.
__________________
The Roach Motel
roach711 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2019, 09:32 PM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by roach711 View Post
All good info in the above posts.

I you're going to have AC and DC in your conversion consider using a combined AC/DC power panel. They usually have AC breakers, DC fuses and an AC/DC converter with a built in battery charger and will really simplify your wiring. We have a Progressive Dynamics 4045 power panel and it's been a good choice for us.

If you choose to go with separate AC and DC panels your AC panel needs to be a branch panel with separate ground and neutral bus bars. This is basic residential AC wiring and many tutorials can be found on Youtube or online.
https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Converte...hoC3u8QAvD_BwE

if i buy this, what does it replace my need for otherwise?
ive been looking at a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter, 110v to 12v converter, 12v and 120v breaker panels, and a battery separater
archetypebus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2019, 10:43 PM   #9
Bus Crazy
 
roach711's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Farmington Hills, Mi (Detroit area)
Posts: 1,851
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Eldorado Aerotech 24'
Chassis: Ford E-450 Cutaway Bus
Engine: 7.3L Powerstroke
Rated Cap: 19
With that power panel you get an integrated AC & DC power panel, a 120v to 12v converter and a three stage battery charger. You would need to buy the battery isolater and inverter separately.
__________________
The Roach Motel
roach711 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 10:13 AM   #10
Bus Nut
 
Drew Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Minnehaha Co., SD
Posts: 724
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypebus View Post
https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Converte...hoC3u8QAvD_BwE

if i buy this, what does it replace my need for otherwise?
ive been looking at a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter, 110v to 12v converter, 12v and 120v breaker panels, and a battery separater

Like Roach711said. Alternatively, you can buy an inverter/charger with a an automatic transfer switch that will take care of your battery charging needs, then you could buy an AC/DC power distribution panel without the charger or converter. Instead of the converter, we run the DC from our battery bank. Isolater would still be a separate product.
__________________
Our Build: https://dazzlingbluebus.wordpress.com/
Drew Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 01:44 PM   #11
Skoolie
 
Willie_McCoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 168
Year: 1980
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Detroit 671T
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Bru View Post
Like Roach711said. Alternatively, you can buy an inverter/charger with a an automatic transfer switch that will take care of your battery charging needs, then you could buy an AC/DC power distribution panel without the charger or converter. Instead of the converter, we run the DC from our battery bank. Isolater would still be a separate product.
I like this idea better, this allows the AC circuits to be powered by either shore power or the inverter with automatic transfer switiching. Much simpler wiring and safer too I imagine.

Not sure how solar would fit in the mix here, I wont have any to start but plan to add it in the future and would hate to have to replace the inverter/charger, especially with it being over $700
__________________
Follow our build and travels on Instagram @ https://www.instagram.com/supercoach_skoolie/
Willie_McCoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 02:17 PM   #12
Bus Nut
 
Drew Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Minnehaha Co., SD
Posts: 724
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie_McCoy View Post
I like this idea better, this allows the AC circuits to be powered by either shore power or the inverter with automatic transfer switiching. Much simpler wiring and safer too I imagine.

Not sure how solar would fit in the mix here, I wont have any to start but plan to add it in the future and would hate to have to replace the inverter/charger, especially with it being over $700

I can't speak to it being safer or simpler. It took me awhile to wrap my brains around getting the electrical set up. I was only aware of the basics of residential wiring, this mobile living and AC/DC adds a level of complexity that I wasn't too sure of. We added solar to this setup with no problem. Didn't change anything about the inverter, it's just an added charging source.
__________________
Our Build: https://dazzlingbluebus.wordpress.com/
Drew Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 04:07 PM   #13
Skoolie
 
Willie_McCoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 168
Year: 1980
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Detroit 671T
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Bru View Post
I can't speak to it being safer or simpler. It took me awhile to wrap my brains around getting the electrical set up. I was only aware of the basics of residential wiring, this mobile living and AC/DC adds a level of complexity that I wasn't too sure of. We added solar to this setup with no problem. Didn't change anything about the inverter, it's just an added charging source.
I've been spending a lot of time lately reading and researching about all this Mobile AC/DC/Solar/12v/24v/120v/Converter/Inverter/ crazyness and for every question I seem to answer, 3 more are created.

I am very comfortable with household wiring, and standard 12v as well, but add the complexities of multiple power sources (shore power, solar, genset, batteries) and multiple output voltages, (120vAC & 12vDC) and crazy questions about floating neutrals or bonding/grounding, and the like and I feel a bit out of my element.

I like this setup, and I think it will work well for me, but I wonder about using a generator with it. Even though you can plug the generator into the shore power outlet, doesn't it change wether your neutral should be "floating" or bonded?

IIRC your neutral should NOT be bonded when on shore power, but it should be when on generator power. I will have to find that bookmark later and fall back down that rabbit hole.
__________________
Follow our build and travels on Instagram @ https://www.instagram.com/supercoach_skoolie/
Willie_McCoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 05:53 PM   #14
Bus Nut
 
Drew Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Minnehaha Co., SD
Posts: 724
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie_McCoy View Post
I've been spending a lot of time lately reading and researching about all this Mobile AC/DC/Solar/12v/24v/120v/Converter/Inverter/ crazyness and for every question I seem to answer, 3 more are created.

I am very comfortable with household wiring, and standard 12v as well, but add the complexities of multiple power sources (shore power, solar, genset, batteries) and multiple output voltages, (120vAC & 12vDC) and crazy questions about floating neutrals or bonding/grounding, and the like and I feel a bit out of my element.

I like this setup, and I think it will work well for me, but I wonder about using a generator with it. Even though you can plug the generator into the shore power outlet, doesn't it change wether your neutral should be "floating" or bonded?

IIRC your neutral should NOT be bonded when on shore power, but it should be when on generator power. I will have to find that bookmark later and fall back down that rabbit hole.
You can make your own neutral/ground bond plug for a couple bucks. There's examples online I'm sure. I found https://faroutride.com/electrical-system/ a really good primer on electrical systems. Also, from generally looking at other people's builds. There's some really bright guys here that know a lot more about electrical issues than I do, I'm primarily a woodworking kinda guy.
__________________
Our Build: https://dazzlingbluebus.wordpress.com/
Drew Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 09:38 AM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
lqdchkn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: The Great State of TX
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie_McCoy View Post
I've been spending a lot of time lately reading and researching about all this Mobile AC/DC/Solar/12v/24v/120v/Converter/Inverter/ crazyness and for every question I seem to answer, 3 more are created.
IMO the problem lies in the aftermarket themselves. Solar has gotten hugely popular since it's now crazy affordable but the aftermarket has yet to adapt.

IMO what needs to happen and the first one to market will likely hit big with DIY crowds, is someone needs to come out with a AC/DC panel that also has an integrated charge controller. That way all one needs to do is wire the solar into the solar input, AC into the shore power input and the house batteries into their input and let this box handle all the switching.

Unfortunately no beast yet exists and we're left to standard AC/DC boxes and figuring solar is up to us.
lqdchkn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 09:50 AM   #16
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 5,349
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by lqdchkn View Post
IMO the problem lies in the aftermarket themselves. Solar has gotten hugely popular since it's now crazy affordable but the aftermarket has yet to adapt.

IMO what needs to happen and the first one to market will likely hit big with DIY crowds, is someone needs to come out with a AC/DC panel that also has an integrated charge controller. That way all one needs to do is wire the solar into the solar input, AC into the shore power input and the house batteries into their input and let this box handle all the


I am still in the process of buying solar components. Could you please point me to the crazy affordable batteries, charge controller and wire?

Likely the reason that there is not "one box" solutions is that there are so many variables in solar and electrical systems.

I have two RV's in the driveway. One has 300watts of solar and a 12v 215a/h battery bank. The other has 1800 watts of solar and will soon have a24v 400 a/h battery bank.

There is very little commonality of components between the two systems.
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:13 AM   #17
Mini-Skoolie
 
lqdchkn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: The Great State of TX
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
I am still in the process of buying solar components. Could you please point me to the crazy affordable batteries, charge controller and wire?

Likely the reason that there is not "one box" solutions is that there are so many variables in solar and electrical systems.

I have two RV's in the driveway. One has 300watts of solar and a 12v 215a/h battery bank. The other has 1800 watts of solar and will soon have a24v 400 a/h battery bank.

There is very little commonality of components between the two systems.
Batteries - no

Crazy affordable was referring to panels and charge controllers.

100W panels are about $100-$150 now-a-days which is cheap
https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocr...8819430&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/Winnewsun-Fle...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

30A-60A charge controllers are $20-$40 bucks = also cheap

https://www.amazon.com/MOHOO-Control...8819484&sr=8-2
https://www.amazon.com/Controller-Di...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


100W to 300W is plenty for most, 1800W is OMG

Same with batteries 100-200AH is plenty for most, 400AH is OMG

Are you trying to be offgrid for months? or trying to run an AC on battery? lol
lqdchkn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:40 AM   #18
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 5,349
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by lqdchkn View Post
Batteries - no

Crazy affordable was referring to panels and charge controllers.

100W panels are about $100-$150 now-a-days which is cheap
https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocr...8819430&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/Winnewsun-Fle...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

30A-60A charge controllers are $20-$40 bucks = also cheap

https://www.amazon.com/MOHOO-Control...8819484&sr=8-2
https://www.amazon.com/Controller-Di...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


100W to 300W is plenty for most, 1800W is OMG

Same with batteries 100-200AH is plenty for most, 400AH is OMG

Are you trying to be offgrid for months? or trying to run an AC on battery? lol
Yeah.... I need a little bit more. I am spoiled with things like refrigerators and televisions am not fond of running the generator much.

I have 300 watts on my trailer and it is not enough to cover the refrigerator all of the time. Same with the batteries. If the refrigerator hits defrost early in the morning, when the batteries are at their lowest, it makes the low voltage alarm on the inverter scream. On a recent trip it managed to do that most every morning about 4:00am prompting me to get out of bed and go outside and fire up the generator. So much for vacation

For my bus, i simply calculated my energy budget and sized my battery bank to support it. Then I sized the solar to support the batteries. Given the amount of time that I spend in Western Washington, I used Seattle for my location in PVWatts to calculate solar hours.
When I go to Seattle for Thanksgiving I won't have to run my generator all of the time.

$150 for 100 watt panel is cheap? I must have stolen mine. I bought 10- 300 watt panels shipped from AZ for $1400.

If you have a cheap source for batteries and charge controllers I would appreciate it. That is the expensive part. I am looking at the following:

https://www.amazon.com/MidNite-Solar...31412467&psc=1


https://webosolar.com/store/en/deep-...hoCNbwQAvD_BwE

Thanks.
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:48 AM   #19
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 5,349
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by lqdchkn View Post
Batteries - no

Crazy affordable was referring to panels and charge controllers.

100W panels are about $100-$150 now-a-days which is cheap
https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocr...8819430&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/Winnewsun-Fle...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

30A-60A charge controllers are $20-$40 bucks = also cheap

https://www.amazon.com/MOHOO-Control...8819484&sr=8-2
https://www.amazon.com/Controller-Di...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


100W to 300W is plenty for most, 1800W is OMG

Same with batteries 100-200AH is plenty for most, 400AH is OMG

Are you trying to be offgrid for months? or trying to run an AC on battery? lol
Yeah.... I need a little bit more. I am spoiled with things like refrigerators and televisions am not fond of running the generator much.

I have 300 watts on my trailer and it is not enough to cover the refrigerator all of the time. Same with the batteries. If the refrigerator hits defrost early in the morning, when the batteries are at their lowest, it makes the low voltage alarm on the inverter scream. On a recent trip it managed to do that most every morning about 4:00am prompting me to get out of bed and go outside and fire up the generator.

For my bus, i simply calculated my energy budget and sized my battery bank to support it. Then I sized the solar to support the batteries. Given the amount of time that I spend in Western Washington, I used Seattle for my location in PVWatts to calculate solar hours.
When I go to Seattle for Thanksgiving I won't have to run my generator all of the time.

$150 for 100 watt panel is cheap? I must have stolen mine. I bought 10- 300 watt panels shipped from AZ for $1400.

If you have a cheap source for batteries and charge controllers I would appreciate it. That is the expensive part. I am looking at the following:

https://www.amazon.com/MidNite-Solar...31412467&psc=1


https://webosolar.com/store/en/deep-...hoCNbwQAvD_BwE

Thanks.

PS: someplace close for the batteries would be great. Shipping on 500# of batteries is a killer.
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 11:52 AM   #20
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 7,969
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
Yeah.... I need a little bit more. I am spoiled with things like refrigerators and televisions am not fond of running the generator much.

I have 300 watts on my trailer and it is not enough to cover the refrigerator all of the time. Same with the batteries. If the refrigerator hits defrost early in the morning, when the batteries are at their lowest, it makes the low voltage alarm on the inverter scream. On a recent trip it managed to do that most every morning about 4:00am prompting me to get out of bed and go outside and fire up the generator.

For my bus, i simply calculated my energy budget and sized my battery bank to support it. Then I sized the solar to support the batteries. Given the amount of time that I spend in Western Washington, I used Seattle for my location in PVWatts to calculate solar hours.
When I go to Seattle for Thanksgiving I won't have to run my generator all of the time.

$150 for 100 watt panel is cheap? I must have stolen mine. I bought 10- 300 watt panels shipped from AZ for $1400.

If you have a cheap source for batteries and charge controllers I would appreciate it. That is the expensive part. I am looking at the following:

https://www.amazon.com/MidNite-Solar...31412467&psc=1


https://webosolar.com/store/en/deep-...hoCNbwQAvD_BwE

Thanks.

PS: someplace close for the batteries would be great. Shipping on 500# of batteries is a killer.
If I was in that situation, I would find a way to shut the fridge off when I went to bed. If you don't open the door , it will maintain it's temp for more than 4 hours, a freezer for about 24hrs. I'd rather do that than get up at 4am to turn a generator on. I seriously doubt I would be able to get back to sleep after all that. Put the fridge on a timer that shuts it down at 2am and comes back on at 6am.
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×