T444E not starting

[Rovobay]

My bus has been sitting for a month and would not start. I got a Noco boost pro GB150 4000 amp jump starter and a 4 gauge set of jumper cables as the batteries drain fast after continuous cranking. The bus is sitting in a puddle of water so I am not crawling under it. lol. in the pics is my Glow Plug Relay Solenoid. I noted that is was lightly smoking and extremely hot to the touch. Could it be the culprit? or is it just hot from continuous cranking. I haven't really got a lot of time under the hood of this bus and the T444e (7.3L) is new to me. I need to familiarize myself with it. Is that the fuel filter in the second picture? not sure where the water separator is but I might look into fuel delivery. I am also thinking I need to buy one of those ScanGauge D so many of you are fond of. has anyone used an obdII reader with an adapter and successfully read codes?

[Rovobay]

It sucks that I am here at work and not at home with my bus. I also wish I had more pictures to share so you all can tell this dumb guy where to look. where is the priming button located? how about the fuel/water separator? poor bus needs to get some miles on her. I have 1/2 tank of fuel. hope it is not the pump because I put my flooring over the access hole. I did take measurements for where the opening is, just in case I need to cut it to access it. other thought. I know my coolant is just at the add line (or low line) perhaps just a shade under as I haven't wanted to add more because I need to change a heater hose line inside the bus. any suggestions would be helpful.

in regards to a scangauge d, would money be better spent on something else? I wish the display was larger like on my Chevy Duramax. it is an edge CTS touch display.

[cadillackid]

a smoking glowplug relay is a bit abnormal... rather than a jump box do you have an actual battery charger? I found that I could never restart my 444E after dead batteries with any kind of Jump aid.. not even another diesel bus.. once I charged my batteries overnight. it would spin right over and go.... the computer appears to need an extra fast spin up with solid voltage. after the batteries have been killed... the book says it needs 160 RPM... the glowplug relay is probably not designed for continuous duty but intermittent so if you are constantly key off key on crank.. key off key on.. it will get hot... if it gets too hot or is defective then it may not actually make contact...

-Christopher

[Rovobay]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

a smoking glowplug relay is a bit abnormal... rather than a jump box do you have an actual battery charger? I found that I could never restart my 444E after dead batteries with any kind of Jump aid.. not even another diesel bus.. once I charged my batteries overnight. it would spin right over and go.... the computer appears to need an extra fast spin up with solid voltage. after the batteries have been killed... the book says it needs 160 RPM... the glowplug relay is probably not designed for continuous duty but intermittent so if you are constantly key off key on crank.. key off key on.. it will get hot... if it gets too hot or is defective then it may not actually make contact...

-Christopher

Thanks Christopher! I would have to take the batteries out as I am not near shore power. My bus is about 200 yards to my house at the end of our street. have to pack them in my wheelbarrow. even using my truck and jumper cables couldn't start it....

[cadillackid]

the damn things are finicky.. its possuble you could leave your truckl connec ted and running for an hour or so which would give the batteries a decent charge if they are good batteries... luckily where i park mine has outlets so if I kill the batteries I can charge them.. but even when i used another bus and the engine sure sounded like any respectable car engine would when cranking.. the darn thing would not fire.. and didnt set any codes...

[Rovobay]

prior to starting the bus the meter read 12.1 volts. just the continuous and repeated cranking kills the batteries. Since I don't know the history of the bus I should get the batteries bench tested but it is low on the priority list as I am mid build and don't want to invest in new ones until I am ready for travel.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

Even a normal true 8-cyl don't like starting below 12.3 battery charge.
A diesel is going to require 13.2 minimum to at least 14.3 on a cold system.
Charge your batteries over night and you should fire up just fine.
Be careful of the starting fluid mess unless your engine is dead cold ?
The glow plugs will blow it back in your face.
A spray bottle of gas is better than either.
Either is like a drug addictions to a new older diesel.
Once or twice is not bad but constant use it wants it?
A little squirt of gas will have the same effect without the addiction.

[Johnny Mullet]

I would at least replace the fuel filter or make sure the fuel filter bowl is full of fuel. before trying again with charged batteries. Your bus might also have a diagnostics button on the dash somewhere to retrieve the blink codes if there is another issue.

Key "ON" then hold diag button a few seconds and then retrieve the 3 digit codes from the flashing check engine light. Have a pen and paper handy to write the codes down. The light flashes equal the number like 2 flashes would be 2 and so on. The codes will have 3 digits and there may be more than one.

[brokedown]

So, what's the weather link there? Presumably pretty cold. Your glow plugs should be firing off, and when they're on they pull nearly 100A. On my mus, that means my voltage reads in the 11s, sometimes even 10.5 while they're on. if you're not seeing that huge drop in power, I'd suspect that your bus isn't starting because your glow plugs aren't really working.

Quick way to find out is to bridge the two big terminals on the glow plug relay with a screwdriver (plastic handled of course) for about 20 seconds before turning the starter.

[roach711]

At 12.1 volts those batteries were at about 35% charge. The glows and starter are big draws so you may not have had enough juice to feed them both when starting.

After I start my 7.3L the digital battery gauge will read down near 11 volts for 30 seconds or so before the glows shut off so there's a considerable drain when starting these beasties. I'd give those batteries a good overnight recharge and try again.

If your bus was parked with summer grade diesel and you're trying to start in cold weather that may be part of the problem.

You won't see 14 volts without a charger connected or the engine running. Normal, fully charged volts will be 12.6 or 12.7 volts after charging. Battery voltage may read 13.2 or so until the surface charge drains off in a hour or so.

[david.dgeorge07]

Fuel filters are a top culprit, but I’m not sure I would change filters until the battery problem is solved. Systematically addressing one thing at a time helps keep things from getting confusing.

You could end up losing your prime when changing filters and then you would have a battery issue and a fuel delivery issue at the same time...

[Rovobay]

Thanks everyone. Now all i need is time. Sometimes that is the hardest thing to come by. at least the days are longer now.

[Free Bird]

You have to charge your batteries before trying to start. Simplest thing might be to hook up a solar panel and carry on with the build.

[cadillackid]

My own 444e experience is also a +1 to good and solidly charged batteries.
I’ve had them spin over where they sounded like they should start but won’t fire. Charge batteries and it spins real fast and starts easy..

Although this one sounds somewhat different, like no oil at the HPOP. I’d be interested to see a scan tool hooked up and see if there is any HPOP pressure when cranking, or any codes set for sensors out of range.
Christopher

[Rovobay]

Shame on me for not replying to my own thread. I fixed the problem. I thought that batteries of 12.2v charge plus would have been enough to start the bus wasn't so. I had them bench tested and they didn't pass muster. 2 new batteries and they started right up. ugh.... feel stupid. jumper cables, jumper pack, nothing worked until I got new batteries...

[Free Bird]

Well I see the problem is solved - great! I liked your posts (as usual) you certainly bring a lot of depth and common sense to the forum. Matter of fact there were a lot of wise posts on this thread.
I have a hoe with a Mitsubishi straight 6 and mechanical injector pump that needs to spin really fast or no start. The guy who sold it to me was kind enough to fill me in otherwise I probably would have rebuilt the whole fuel system trying to figure it out.

On the other hand I have a 7.3 in my pickup that uses oil pressure to open the injectors and it doesn't need to crank fast but it does love the glow plugs. life does get simpler when you know your own particular engine.

[Rogue1bus]

PLEASE HELP


I’m stuck in the outer banks experiencing a similar problem. I left my auxiliary cooling fans for the engine on overnight killing my start batteries and house batteries down to 9.8v...

I caught a ride with the camp ground owner’s son to Napa and picked up two new start batteries. I hooked them up I’m still reading a low voltage and the engine won’t turn over. Is it possible that my house batteries got so blown that they zapped my new start batteries upon install. What else could it be?

Thanks

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

What type of bus and engine.
A member here GRACEASHLYNNEARTS lives in the outer banks and might be close enough to help if they can.
Could be a start solenoid stuck

[roach711]

Are your house and starting banks connected?

If so, your new starting batts would have been quickly sucked down by the house bank, particularly if the house bank has a large capacity.


Connected batteries will always try to equalize their charges so a bad/dead battery will drag down the rest.


9.8 volts is a dead flat battery.

[david.dgeorge07]

X2 on if your house batts are dead and not isolated, that is (at least part of) your problem. You need an isolator. Manually disconnect your house bank if it is still connected.

Do you have a generator/charger?