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Old 03-08-2018, 04:40 PM   #1
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 227
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: AARE 3903
Engine: Cummins 8.3L 12v
Rated Cap: 78
Plumbing Plan, Comments Appreciated

I've finished my first cut at a plumbing plan, would appreciate comments / feedback. Bus is a 40' Blue Bird All American RE being converted for full time living, family of 5.

Thanks,
Rob



Some of the components I'm looking at using:

Bladder / tanks:
http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f50/bl...nks-19652.html

Marine Water Heater (Electric / Heat Exchanger):
https://www.amazon.com/Kuuma-Water-H...ater+exchanger

Shurflo Marine Pump / Acumulator Tank:
http://shurflo.com/images/files/Mari...-4902-4212.pdf

City / Fill Inlet
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HTWP59S...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Drain / Grey Outlet
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HRX14E4...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Check Valve / Back Flow
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EDUTN6...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Pressure Regulator
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003BZD08U...v_ov_lig_dp_it
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N7JZTYX...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Thermostatic Mixing Valve
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MS3X57O...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Recirculation Pump
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0196WL6GY...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Strainer
https://www.amazon.com/Female-Strain...water+strainer
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F898B4...&pd_rd_w=ZZp5l
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075PPLT3V..._t2_B0171GKS1Q
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:09 PM   #2
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Don't forget vents.
The fixture can be vented with an island/(studor) vent sized for the fixture it is serving or if you an run vent pipes for each and tie them together you can go to a bigger studor rated for the total fixture units if you can't or don't want to run a vent out the roof or sidewall up high.
The tanks also need vents.
If you don't vent the tanks then the air in the tanks can't escape as the waste is dumping in which will end up starting to show up as a slow drain because of the trapped air back pressure and will only allow you about half of the capacity of your tanks.
Then at dump time without a vent once the bakpressure is gone then you will end up with the tanks slow draining/chugging kind of like trying to pour milk,soda, or fuel out of a container to fast.
The tanks need to breath in and out.
In theory the studor vents should work for draining the tanks because there real specification name is AAV air admittance valve which allows air in but they won't help on the filling issue of trapped air because they won't allow air out.
Didn't really study your plan yet?
Just breezed through to look for vents?
The tank vents I never even thought about until someone else here 3-4 years ago brought it up when I was talking about my plumbing.
Good luck
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
Don't forget vents.
The fixture can be vented with an island/(studor) vent sized for the fixture it is serving or if you an run vent pipes for each and tie them together you can go to a bigger studor rated for the total fixture units if you can't or don't want to run a vent out the roof or sidewall up high.
The tanks also need vents.
If you don't vent the tanks then the air in the tanks can't escape as the waste is dumping in which will end up starting to show up as a slow drain because of the trapped air back pressure and will only allow you about half of the capacity of your tanks.
Then at dump time without a vent once the bakpressure is gone then you will end up with the tanks slow draining/chugging kind of like trying to pour milk,soda, or fuel out of a container to fast.
The tanks need to breath in and out.
In theory the studor vents should work for draining the tanks because there real specification name is AAV air admittance valve which allows air in but they won't help on the filling issue of trapped air because they won't allow air out.
Didn't really study your plan yet?
Just breezed through to look for vents?
The tank vents I never even thought about until someone else here 3-4 years ago brought it up when I was talking about my plumbing.
Good luck
Vents are very important...I add that the AAVs need to be as close to ceiling as possible...above the highest water outlet



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Old 03-08-2018, 06:54 PM   #4
Skoolie
 
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Chassis: AARE 3903
Engine: Cummins 8.3L 12v
Rated Cap: 78
Thanks guys, appreciate the comments. Plumbing is definitely not my strong suit.

I'm excited to hear about the AAVs, I was really hoping not to have to run a roof vent. There is currently one drain vent shown at the top right of the grey water line, but wasn't really sure where to put it.

This is kind of interesting:
https://www.studor.net/trap-vent

The way we've laid things out, all 3 fixtures will be within 6' or so with the drain sloping down from the sink, to the washer standpipe, to the tub drain below the floor. So you think it's necessary to put an AAV on each, or just at the top end by the sink? Otherwise we could probably extend a vent pipe up past the washer standpipe and put a normal AAV on the top, and/or another trap vent below the tub?

Tank vents is an interesting one. We are going to try using bladders contained in a non-sealed tank. In theory the bladders don't need to be vented as they expand and contract with the water and so have very little air in them once the system is bled. I'm still waiting to see how that works out. My plan is to add vents on the right side by the gravity fill / grey flush connections if we seem to have issues? The bladders only have two connections, one toward the top and one toward the bottom. Pressurized fill can be from either, drain from bottom, gravity fill from top. The bladders are not pressurized unless overfilled, more like an air mattress than a balloon I suppose.

Thanks,
Rob
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:15 PM   #5
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RV water systems are pressurized and don't need a vent beyond the pump.

Freshwater tanks (behind the pump) are usually vented with a small-bore tube right back to the fill point. Grey water tanks are simply vented under the unit.

The only time you need a roof vent is if you have a black tank, to get the smell up and away. The reason the black tank needs venting it that if it gets warm, and pressurizes, you could have a nasty experience when you open the toilet valve.
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:31 PM   #6
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Look at the Hepvo trap for your sink drain. It's a waterless trap so you don't need the studor vent and it also makes winterizing easier.

When using a wet P trap the studor vent is necessary to keep the drain line from siphoning the trap. Another way to avoid AAV's is to make your drain line a larger diameter so drain water never fills the drain pipe and creates a suction in the pipe. As long as air can move around in the drain your traps won't get sucked dry.
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Old 03-15-2018, 05:48 AM   #7
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Are you planning on adding a water filtration system?

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Old 03-25-2018, 05:31 PM   #8
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: AARE 3903
Engine: Cummins 8.3L 12v
Rated Cap: 78
Well probably use an inline filter on the hose when filling the tank. Drinking and cooking water will be filtered in a Berkey.



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Old 03-25-2018, 05:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roach711 View Post
Look at the Hepvo trap for your sink drain. It's a waterless trap so you don't need the studor vent and it also makes winterizing easier.

When using a wet P trap the studor vent is necessary to keep the drain line from siphoning the trap. Another way to avoid AAV's is to make your drain line a larger diameter so drain water never fills the drain pipe and creates a suction in the pipe. As long as air can move around in the drain your traps won't get sucked dry.
The problem with vents is that they are always open, and will sometimes smell. The only way to deal with that is to raise them high, and that's way too much trouble.

So yeah, the traps will siphon when you drain the grey tank. Deal with it by pouring a glass of water into the sink and shower when the job is done.
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Old 04-01-2018, 10:29 PM   #10
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Hampshire
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nice drawing! It would be a good idea to have identical pumps, If one fails it won't leave you totally stranded. I would pick the most common pump that Homedepot or Lowes sells. Those bladder bags makes me nervous.
Best of luck.~Dilly
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