4K Dwarf Wood Stove

[ComfortEagle]

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

There is nothing wrong with those time for temp ranges, especially with the variables you mentioned.
once you get the floor done, panel everything up, and sort out any drafts you may or may not find.... she should be a toaster on wheels
then it will be a matter of how long she stays toasty, but I think you're gonna have a cozy rig when its cold out

Thanks for chiming in. As I think about it, the bus will have 5 different potential heat sources:
1) Wood stove
2) Dickinson propane heater
3) Mini-split
4) The 3 replacement bus heaters
5) A My Buddy propane heater (for temporary emergency heat)

I guess the bigger concern is that I will have only one source of AC, the mini-split. Fans too...

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by ComfortEagle

I am skeptical; if you really were hotter than most folks maybe the good people of Goose Bay wouldn't mind your nakedness...

On a more serious note, I did a bit of an experiment yesterday... Temps here in the DC area are starting to fall, so I fired up the wood stove and the propane heater to see how long it would take for temps in the bus to come up.

The temp in the bus started at 40F (frigid I know...), and from the time I lit the fire and turned on the propane heater it took the following time to temp:
- 30 minutes - 54F
- 50 minutes - 63F
- 70 minutes - 67F
- 85 minutes - 70F

I will try again with colder temps...

For reference, the wood stove is at the very front of the bus, near the door. And the propane heater is in a very back corner. I suspended the thermometer from the ceiling about halfway between the two heaters. The bus is still basically an empty shell with spray foam in the ceiling and rigid foam in the walls, all windows uncovered, and no insulation in the floors (not yet, will be insulating the floor from underneath...).

Hey, with your floor uninsulated and you set up to measure times to various internal temperatures like this, you're perfectly situated to actually measure the effectiveness of a skirt around the underside of a bus (controlling for external temperature, of course). This would also give you some baseline measurements for evaluating the effectiveness of your under-body insulation once you install it.

[ComfortEagle]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Hey, with your floor uninsulated and you set up to measure times to various internal temperatures like this, you're perfectly situated to actually measure the effectiveness of a skirt around the underside of a bus (controlling for external temperature, of course). This would also give you some baseline measurements for evaluating the effectiveness of your under-body insulation once you install it.

Is this related to a hay bale discussion I saw here recently?

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by ComfortEagle

Is this related to a hay bale discussion I saw here recently?

The subject of skirting has come up in a number of threads. The consensus is that it would be effective (i.e. provide enough of a benefit to be worth the effort), though I think it would not be, for a variety of reasons. Its effectiveness would be measurable although nobody (to my knowledge) has done so. I can't do it myself since my bus has the confounding variable of a giant hole in the floor.

[banman]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

The subject of skirting has come up in a number of threads. The consensus is that it would be effective (i.e. provide enough of a benefit to be worth the effort), though I think it would not be, for a variety of reasons. Its effectiveness would be measurable although nobody (to my knowledge) has done so. I can't do it myself since my bus has the confounding variable of a giant hole in the floor.

Skirting would make an even bigger difference for you as it would block the wind from your having no floor.

The drawback of straw bales for you is that they don't mix well with grinding & welding...

The other drawback for most is the impact to mobility. But if your bus is planted for the winter then getting straw bales stacked all the way around will be a huge (sorry no math available...) benefit.

When I wintered in my trailer I stacked the bales 3 high all the way around except for the door opening where I could only place one bale. Based on how much longer my 20lb propane tanks lasted (gravity furnace!) I'd say the bales improved things by ~25%
In my case I was able to borrow the straw bales for the winter so there was no cost to me but my labor to move them twice...

For the OP I would consider getting 2" foam board used for foundation insulation and placing them up against the side of the bus vertically -- covering the windows you don't need -- held in place with a couple rows of straw bales. Once the bales are frozen to the ground you can use a bunch of cheap ratchet straps to pull the upright foam tight against the bus and then cover the seams with duct tape. It won't be pretty but it WILL get you through the school year...

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by banman

When I wintered in my trailer I stacked the bales 3 high all the way around except for the door opening where I could only place one bale. Based on how much longer my 20lb propane tanks lasted (gravity furnace!) I'd say the bales improved things by ~25%

You controlled for external temperature with this estimate?

[Dw89xj]

I live in a mobile home and having skirting in place makes a huge difference. Blocking the wind from blowing underneath helps our place stay warm. A couple years ago I had some damaged skirting so a few pieces were missing and it was very noticeable. When I move to bus life I will definitely try to come up with a skirting design that would be easy to deal with in the event I want to be where it's cold and windy for more than a couple days.

[banman]

Originally Posted by banman View Post

When I wintered in my trailer I stacked the bales 3 high all the way around except for the door opening where I could only place one bale. Based on how much longer my 20lb propane tanks lasted (gravity furnace!) I'd say the bales improved things by ~25%

Originally Posted by musigenesis

You controlled for external temperature with this estimate?

You'd rather I lie to you?

Anecdotal -- maybe -- I admit -- but the temps in a Colorado Dec don't vary that much so yeah... Since I used 3 20lb tanks for my heat and cooking (and propane fridge but I doubt the fridge factored much at all); when two tanks were empty I'd go fill 'em at the flying J...

Several weeks of 'average' Nov & Dec temps compared to Dec & Jan temps which are only colder but still using less gas.

Absolutely - mathematical proof that straw-bales made a HUGE frickin' difference! My tanks lasted longer in colder average weather after adding the straw-bales.

Google "fuzzy-set" and expand your mathematical mind -- it's a beautiful world!

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by banman

You'd rather I lie to you?

I'm not sure why you're asking this, but my question about controlling for temperature was a way of questioning your methodology and accuracy, not an implication that you were lying. I don't think anyone would have a reason to lie about this, unless they work for Big Hay Bale or something.

Originally Posted by banman

Anecdotal -- maybe -- I admit --

{ ... }

Absolutely - mathematical proof that straw-bales made a HUGE frickin' difference!

Whatever results you came up with are somewhere between these two extremes, no doubt. If the effect is close to "HUGE frickin' difference!", what harm is there in a proper controlled experiment that could put a number (with a confidence interval) on it? Especially when it's easy and straightforward to conduct such an experiment.

If it turns out I'm wrong, and this is demonstrated to indeed be a worthwhile thing to do (and even something like a 5% reduction in fuel use might be worth it and enough to prove me wrong - 25% would be a total no-brainer), you can enjoy commenting derisively on the pics of my bus with hay bales all around it.

Originally Posted by banman

Google "fuzzy-set" and expand your mathematical mind -- it's a beautiful world!

Unfortunately I don't have to google this, since the concepts are well-known in my former field (Anthropology) which wrestles generally with the problem of trying to extract meaningful conclusions from sloppily-collected, imprecise data. To sort of restate my earlier comment, you don't need fuzzy sets or fuzzy logic if you collect good data.

I agree that it's a beautiful world.

[banman]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

I'm not sure why you're asking this, but my question about controlling for temperature was a way of questioning your methodology and accuracy, not an implication that you were lying. I don't think anyone would have a reason to lie about this, unless they work for Big Hay Bale or something.

Strictly sarcasm -- humor doesn't always work between strangers -- I'm sorry.

Whatever results you came up with are somewhere between these two extremes, no doubt. If the effect is close to "HUGE frickin' difference!", what harm is there in a proper controlled experiment that could put a number (with a confidence interval) on it? Especially when it's easy and straightforward to conduct such an experiment.
No harm at all. But I no longer live in a camper surrounded by straw-bales so I have no way of providing 'hard data'. I can only provide a memory of what worked well in my past...

If it turns out I'm wrong, and this is demonstrated to indeed be a worthwhile thing to do (and even something like a 5% reduction in fuel use might be worth it and enough to prove me wrong - 25% would be a total no-brainer), you can enjoy commenting derisively on the pics of my bus with hay bales all around it.

At the time I was able to borrow the bales for free but even at $5/bale it's probably still worth it -- meaning it'd save more fuel than the cost of bales, and if the bales aren't damaged you can still sell them in the spring and get some of that money back

Unfortunately I don't have to google this, since the concepts are well-known in my former field (Anthropology) which wrestles generally with the problem of trying to extract meaningful conclusions from sloppily-collected, imprecise data. To sort of restate my earlier comment, you don't need fuzzy sets or fuzzy logic if you collect good data.
My point (or situation) was that I only had imprecise data -- but significant -- the %25 improvement isn't just a SWAG but that it was really easy to see each 20lb tank lasted a day longer even though it got colder out

I agree that it's a beautiful world.

I've responded above in bold txt

[ComfortEagle]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

I'm not sure why you're asking this...

Originally Posted by banman

I've responded above in bold txt...

Please finish this off with some sugar, and get back on topic...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjcYH5A_ovc

[musigenesis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9nE2spOw_o

[banman]

[QUOTE[/QUOTE]

Oh my!

Kinda awesome though...

[ComfortEagle]

Wow, over a year since I updated this thread, and the stove is still not permanently mounted. Soon...

The stove does however, have a permanent home.




This pic was taken this morning. I recently installed an additional chimney mounted stove fan and chimney pipe heat shield.


I also have some of these “stove pipe heat reclaim radiators” coming. I will mount them under the chimney mounted fan, inside the heat shield.



The heat shield is not sized for 4 inch single wall pipes but with the included ceramic stand-offs it fits well on the 4 inch insulated pipe section.


With the stove (and stove pipe) so close to the entry door, I was happy to see the heat shield is cool enough to touch.