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Old 02-02-2014, 10:39 AM   #11
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Re: Hydronic Radiant Heating in a Bus

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbstewart
sounds like a lot weight lots of pipes and things to go wrong just to heat a bus
gbstewart

Agreed...far to complex and costly for just a bus...or a house for that matter. But what do I know, I live in MT.
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Old 02-02-2014, 03:13 PM   #12
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Re: Hydronic Radiant Heating in a Bus

Quote:
Originally Posted by opus
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbstewart
sounds like a lot weight lots of pipes and things to go wrong just to heat a bus
gbstewart

Agreed...far to complex and costly for just a bus...or a house for that matter. But what do I know, I live in MT.
It's not nearly as complicated as it looks.

Really, it's more simple than most of the forced air systems in homes.

Around here in the north, the heating system is the most important part of a residential dwelling.

And the highest costing component is insulation.

Remember, some of use the bus as our home. No such thing as to expensive.

My system allows me to heat with four fuels, including alternative energy's that cost me nothing . Can any of yours do that?

I knew most of you would be over whelmed by what you don't understand, at one time I was too. So last night I made a few simple, Low cost drawings.

This is the most simple system that can be assembled. Under $1000 with all components. Later I will post pump sizes, and other specs for other who wish to use it. It is also the system currently in use in the cabin I built.


This system has one of the existing bus heater cores plumbed into the system.


This system has all of the above, with the ability to heat potable water for $250 more.


Nat
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:34 PM   #13
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Re: Hydronic Radiant Heating in a Bus

so are planning on putting this system into your bus, and living in it when its -30 to -40?
you may have to burn all 4 fuels at one time to handle our winters, I have had 38 days in a row where the ambient air temp has been -33 to -38c and 16 days where it was below -40 with wind, that's pretty cold to be out in a bus. I think Ill stay with my forced air propane furnace and electric heat pretty simple system works fine, and when it gets real cold ill head south
And yes I do understand how it works and was not'' over whelmed'' I have a good back ground, and others on the site could just as easy surf the net and figured this out
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:44 PM   #14
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Re: Hydronic Radiant Heating in a Bus

I think I am elated with my Webasto on the bus and my wood stove in the house. I too have a very good idea on radiant heating.

To each his own........
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:59 PM   #15
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Re: Hydronic Radiant Heating in a Bus

I have an outdoor wood gasifier powering in-floor radiant systems in my basement, garage and 54x80 farm shop and would change NOTHING about the way I've designed the heating systems in my life. I've got a dual fuel LP/AC boiler in the basement just in case for backup ... when it routinely hits -25F here I am taking NO chances with not having heat. I even have a Honda 5000w genny in the shed to power the circ pumps if the power goes out. No messing around.

On the surface, it does seem like a lot of work to put into a bus BUT like Nat said, where we are heat, and heat retention, are the areas where the most money is spent in any warm structure. I want a method of heating that I trust.

I am very intruiged by the idea of on demand domestic hot water in your bus using the radiant heat system as the source. I've got a heat exchanger in the house and love it !!

Thanks for taking the time to share these plans with us, I'll stay tuned to see where this goes for sure.
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:13 AM   #16
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Re: Hydronic Radiant Heating in a Bus

I think it is important to remember that not all of us have the same goals with our buses. For me, I am moving south in June, and don't plan on full-timing in my bus at any point in the near future, and if I did, I would remain mobile enough that I could just stay where it is warmer in the winter. That being said...some here live in extreme climates and plan to eventually full-time in their buses. While this sort of system looks overly complex, it's just like anything else, start breaking it down and it slowly starts to get simpler and simpler. For someone up here in the great north, this sort of system guarantees that you are always going to have heat, and it is likely to be incredibly efficient. Is it overboard? Probably. Who cares?! It's good tech and you can pick and choose what you want to glean from it. I eventually plan to convert a Prevost H3-45 or comparable. That one, I plan on full-timing in with my wife for extended seasons and want to be able to travel wherever the hell I want, whenever the hell I want. For that reason, I am going to be bookmarking this and going back to it from time to time to make sure I understand it. Even if I don't copy it verbatim, there is good info here. The more I research it, I may even find portions I think should be done differently...big deal, it's still a great starting point to get someone who is interested thinking outside the box.
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:02 PM   #17
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Re: Hydronic Radiant Heating in a Bus

The best head loss Calculator I have found so far.
http://www.freecalc.com/fricfram.htm

Some good info
http://www.vanguard.ca/guides/Hydronic% ... Manual.pdf

The holey grail of circulating pumps for low power consumption, off grid applications. This pump has a incredible power curve.
http://www.pexuniverse.com/grundfos-alp ... 1-6hp-115v

The most efficient, long lasting, fastest recovery rate tank style water heater. 100% stainless steel, 75 000 to 200 000 BTU
http://www.amazon.com/Polaris-Heater-34 ... m_sbs_hi_2

How the Vertex is made.


Best way to build a wood free, light weight countertop.


As I find better resources, the links here may change.

Nat
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:28 AM   #18
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Re: Hydronic Radiant Heating in a Bus

I agree with JakeC and Bamper. I've still got about 10 more months until I get my own bus, so I'm no expert, but we all have different values. The system described IS complex, and will be expensive up front, but it provides utilities most buses don't. Radiant heat. High efficiency. Multifuel capability. High heat output. High hot water output.

We all tailor our systems to our situation. If you take short showers, live in the forest, and don't mind cutting wood, get a wood stove and a small hot water tank. Get a Webasto if your boss lets you fill up on diesel at work for free. Use primarily electric heat if your local grid is reliable and cheap or your campgrounds almost always have free 50 amp hookups.

Nat's bus is ready for anything. I dig it.

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Old 02-17-2014, 02:15 AM   #19
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Re: Hydronic Radiant Heating in a Bus

After a bunch more research, I have decided to go with a tank style, high efficiency, 100,000 BTU, 34 gallon Polaris 444 Stainless Steel Water Heater as my primary boiler.
http://www.americanwaterheaternews.com/ ... olaris.htm



Pic of the heater's burner.



And my system layout.


I will have a welding shop tig weld a 10 gallon tank with 6, one inch NPT ports in it for my electrical heating needs. Anytime the electrical heat is being used, the circulation pump for that loop will need to be activated. This small additional electrical load would be no problem when using that many watts in heating.

Main reason for not adding the electrical heating elements into the Polaris water heater is changing out elements. This would require draining the 34 gallons of glycol each time a heating element needed service. By using an additional tank, it can be isolated from the main system, rotated to position the elements on the top, and change a element without spilling a drop of glycol.

This system has less than 5 feet of head in any of the heating loops. By using the Grundfos Alpha 15-55F/LC (59896832) brushless Circulatory Pump, I am able to take my circulating pump electrical load from 80 watts to under 20 watts for each pump.

In comparison, the tankless heater would have needed a pump that required 300 watts to operate. When running on solar, that increases the cost, and defeats the efficiency goal.

Nat
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:41 PM   #20
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Re: Hydronic Radiant Heating in a Bus

Carried over from a different thread so we would not clutter it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by texasrednek
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster
Run two 3/4 pex lines from your gas hot water heater to the place you need heat, ad a circulator pump,

Nat
I know this is off topic some but I figured if it were plausible maybe the OP could use the idea.

Nat, instead of using a circulator pump, could you run a coil up through the roof and back down to the heater in the return line effectively creating a thermal siphon, and eliminate the electric draw on your system for the pump? The coil outside I would recommend copper for its thermal quality's as well as not breaking down under UV's.
Circulator pump I would use in this application is the Grundfos Alpha. For the amount of line in this type of setting, the pump would only need 15 to 75 watts when running. The pump draw is vary small compared to the draw of the fan on the heater core. The fans will take 5 to 10 times that much power.


For a system with radiant heat lines in the floor, there would be no fans, so the thermal siphon idea comes back. However, upon calculating the perimeters for such system, the
thermal siphoning will never move enough water to carry enough heat with the size lines we use. If we use 3\4 lines with a pump, you would need 5 inch lines with the thermal siphoning.

Also with the thermal siphoning, you would have to run Glycol is a dedicated water heater to keep the water from freezing before returning due to low flow.

Nat
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