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11-17-2019, 08:55 AM
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#1
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 415
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner HDX
Engine: CAT C7 300hp w/retarder
Rated Cap: 46 + 1 36,200 lbs
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Questions About Plumbing for Propane
I am looking at a used cooktop that I would have to convert for propane use. It has a regulator at the appliance. If I regulate the propane at the tank, do I need a regulator at the cooktop? I would also like to operate a tankless water heater. At this moment I am not sure whether it will have its own regulator. So, how best to plumb for propane in such a situation?
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11-17-2019, 09:12 AM
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#2
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,349
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Thomas 4 window w/lift
Chassis: G30~Chevy cutaway
Engine: 5.7/350 Chevy Vortec
Rated Cap: Just me and my "stuff"?
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Regulators on both. Only 1 regulator/appliance. Is the cooktop setup for propane or natural gas? You'll need to know, as regulator and nozzle sizes are different.
Some ideas on plumbing propane appliances without needing hard piping installed:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ZVSLD8MY&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ZVSLD8MY&psc=1
You'll need to know the inlet fitting sizes of each appliance to ensure proper fitment.
As you are likely aware, propane can be extremely dangerous if not installed properly. Take your time, ensure fittings are tight, then using dish soap and water sprayed on all mechanical connections to check for leaks after pressurizing these appliances with propane.
If unsure of anything, seek out a qualified plumber to ensure your safety.
Good luck...
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11-17-2019, 09:33 AM
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#3
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 415
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner HDX
Engine: CAT C7 300hp w/retarder
Rated Cap: 46 + 1 36,200 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteg59
Regulators on both. Only 1 regulator/appliance. Is the cooktop setup for propane or natural gas? You'll need to know, as regulator and nozzle sizes are different.
Some ideas on plumbing propane appliances without needing hard piping installed:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ZVSLD8MY&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ZVSLD8MY&psc=1
You'll need to know the inlet fitting sizes of each appliance to ensure proper fitment.
As you are likely aware, propane can be extremely dangerous if not installed properly. Take your time, ensure fittings are tight, then using dish soap and water sprayed on all mechanical connections to check for leaks after pressurizing these appliances with propane.
If unsure of anything, seek out a qualified plumber to ensure your safety.
Good luck...
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The cooktop is a nice two burner KitchenAid unit set up for natural gas. It is old enough that KitchenAid does not support it with parts for propane conversion. I think that I can still manage to get it to work with propane by changing the orifices and using a regulator sourced elsewhere. Pipe dope and bubble soap will be my close companions for the project
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11-17-2019, 09:44 AM
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#4
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Almost There
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 80
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Carpenter (Cavalier)
Chassis: International Harvester
Engine: DTA360
Rated Cap: 63
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Make sure you don’t use the dope with flare fittings.
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11-17-2019, 09:47 AM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,846
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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I like continuous piping in closed areas.. ie continuous copper tube through the walls. and the joints are located somewhere that is not completely sealed.. meaning where air can get to it.. that way a small leak either produces an odor or dissipates .. joints are easily tested for leaks since they are accessible..
definitely a regulator at the tank so you run already lowered pressure gas through your piping asnd then a regulator at each appliance.. not sure i'd hack together a gas cooking appliance, but thats just me when it comes to fire...
also remember if you are using copper piping dont us compression... either braze the lines or flare fittings...
-Christopher
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11-17-2019, 10:12 AM
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#6
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 415
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner HDX
Engine: CAT C7 300hp w/retarder
Rated Cap: 46 + 1 36,200 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
I like continuous piping in closed areas.. ie continuous copper tube through the walls. and the joints are located somewhere that is not completely sealed.. meaning where air can get to it.. that way a small leak either produces an odor or dissipates .. joints are easily tested for leaks since they are accessible..
definitely a regulator at the tank so you run already lowered pressure gas through your piping asnd then a regulator at each appliance.. not sure i'd hack together a gas cooking appliance, but thats just me when it comes to fire...
also remember if you are using copper piping dont us compression... either braze the lines or flare fittings...
-Christopher
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Never have brazed copper only soldered. Flaring it’s not too hard though, and there’s always that corrugated steel flex tubing.
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11-17-2019, 11:15 AM
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#7
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteg59
Regulators on both. Only 1 regulator/appliance. Is the cooktop setup for propane or natural gas? You'll need to know, as regulator and nozzle sizes are different.
Some ideas on plumbing propane appliances without needing hard piping installed:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ZVSLD8MY&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ZVSLD8MY&psc=1
You'll need to know the inlet fitting sizes of each appliance to ensure proper fitment.
As you are likely aware, propane can be extremely dangerous if not installed properly. Take your time, ensure fittings are tight, then using dish soap and water sprayed on all mechanical connections to check for leaks after pressurizing these appliances with propane.
If unsure of anything, seek out a qualified plumber to ensure your safety.
Good luck...
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Don’t use those hoses.
Read NFPA 1192.
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11-17-2019, 11:45 AM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Flaring copper coil is easy, copper pipe, not so much.
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11-17-2019, 04:09 PM
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#9
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 505
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Gillig
Chassis: Phantom
Engine: CAT 3208
Rated Cap: 87, says Gillig...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo
Read NFPA 1192.
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Funny guy...
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11-17-2019, 04:17 PM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrenchtech
The cooktop is a nice two burner KitchenAid unit set up for natural gas. It is old enough that KitchenAid does not support it with parts for propane conversion. I think that I can still manage to get it to work with propane by changing the orifices and using a regulator sourced elsewhere. Pipe dope and bubble soap will be my close companions for the project
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It would be a good idea to bench test the stove with propane before you install it.
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11-17-2019, 04:37 PM
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#11
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 415
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner HDX
Engine: CAT C7 300hp w/retarder
Rated Cap: 46 + 1 36,200 lbs
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11-17-2019, 04:38 PM
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#12
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 415
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner HDX
Engine: CAT C7 300hp w/retarder
Rated Cap: 46 + 1 36,200 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo
It would be a good idea to bench test the stove with propane before you install it.
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Absolutely!
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11-17-2019, 08:07 PM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 3,231
Year: 1935
Coachwork: Superior
Chassis: Chevy
Engine: 317 ci/tid / Isuzu
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The flare on copper tubing used to carry propane MUST be perfect. Flaring isn't rocket science but a bad flare like this "factory original" I discovered in my new to me stove and heater propane set up could turn your bus into a rocket. Note the small crack in the bell of the flare. That tiny crack leaked enough propane to add a peculiar aroma to my bus from time to tine but never enough of a leak to set off the propane sniffer. Soap suds didn't show a leak--until I pressurized the complete system with 10 psi air and that did it. Jack
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11-17-2019, 08:23 PM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Moved to Zealand!
Posts: 1,517
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner FS-65
Engine: 7.2L Cat 3126 turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 71 passenger 30,000 gvwr
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Personally I would use a NiCop (nickle-copper alloy) line and double flare the ends like a brake line. The NiCop is much stronger but still easy to bend and flare, the double flare is much stronger than a single, way less likely to crack from the vibration.
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11-17-2019, 09:14 PM
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#15
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,349
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Thomas 4 window w/lift
Chassis: G30~Chevy cutaway
Engine: 5.7/350 Chevy Vortec
Rated Cap: Just me and my "stuff"?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo
Don’t use those hoses.
Read NFPA 1192.
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So, what's wrong with using hoses specifically made for propane appliances?
Also, how about posting a link to what you think applies in NFPA 1192 for RV's, without having to purchase an $80. manual. Thanks, in advance...
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11-17-2019, 09:20 PM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteg59
So, what's wrong with using hoses specifically made for propane appliances?
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Outdoor use only.
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11-17-2019, 09:31 PM
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#17
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,349
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Thomas 4 window w/lift
Chassis: G30~Chevy cutaway
Engine: 5.7/350 Chevy Vortec
Rated Cap: Just me and my "stuff"?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo
Outdoor use only.
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I'm not seeing the notation "Outdoor use only" on those hoses. They're made for Mr.Buddy, and other propane heaters and cookers that can be used inside a bus.
I have seen a Coleman single burner propane cooker that is labeled for outdoor use only, but what's the difference between that and the propane stove tops found in commercially made RV's that are perfectly safe to use inside?
Seems safe enough to me, and I'd certainly take my chances with those S/S braided/covered propane appliance hoses over a "bare" rubber hose...
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11-17-2019, 09:54 PM
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#18
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteg59
I'm not seeing the notation "Outdoor use only" on those hoses. They're made for Mr.Buddy, and other propane heaters and cookers that can be used inside a bus.
I have seen a Coleman single burner propane cooker that is labeled for outdoor use only, but what's the difference between that and the propane stove tops found in commercially made RV's that are perfectly safe to use inside?
Seems safe enough to me, and I'd certainly take my chances with those S/S braided/covered propane appliance hoses over a "bare" rubber hose...
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Except for abrasion there isn’t any difference between that and a bare hose, except that you wouldn’t be able to see the a potential problem under it. I would consider any “rubber” hose, armored or not, to be an outdoor-only gas line. Maybe you never have a problem. Doesn’t seem worth the chance of a fitting blowing off while you’re cooking.
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11-17-2019, 11:02 PM
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#19
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin
Posts: 415
Year: 2008
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner HDX
Engine: CAT C7 300hp w/retarder
Rated Cap: 46 + 1 36,200 lbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banman
Personally I would use a NiCop (nickle-copper alloy) line and double flare the ends like a brake line. The NiCop is much stronger but still easy to bend and flare, the double flare is much stronger than a single, way less likely to crack from the vibration.
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I have made my own brake lines out of that stuff. My only question is, will it work with the fittings that are available to connect to appliances and pipe.
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11-18-2019, 01:31 PM
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#20
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteg59
So, what's wrong with using hoses specifically made for propane appliances?
Also, how about posting a link to what you think applies in NFPA 1192 for RV's, without having to purchase an $80. manual. Thanks, in advance...
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Not speaking specifically to the issue of propane, but the reason I try to learn and comply with even remotely applicable building codes, where they don't conflict with other more applicable codes or obvious common-sense for a particular situation, is because of what I don't know, rather than what I do. I view building codes as, at least in part, the collective trial & error knowledge of countless builders, over a great expanse of time. It's the answer to all those "why can't I use x here" questions without having burn down something to realize what didn't appear obvious at first glance. Not saying code adherence is the only answer, or even the best. But IMO, if you're going to conflict with code, it should be based on a thorough understanding of the situations such code was meant to prevent, as well as how your solution will better address such issues.
Also - NFPA 1192 is specifically for RVs. So everything in it applies to RVs
Finally, you can create a free account & view any of those documents online, Pete. Just click on the 'free access' button, and it will prompt you to create a free login account if you don't have one already:
https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stand...tail?code=1192
__________________
Go away. 'Baitin.
Our Build: Mr. Beefy
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