Resources for finding appliances?

[Yuuyia_Takahashi]

Hello All,


So, I have decided on a specific bus. I have made a sufficient floor plan that is of my liking, which accommodates the sleeping capacity that I require. Thanks to actually finding the manufacturers blueprint with exact dimensions of the complete interior, I know my exact spacial availability. This leads me to this section of the forum.

Do any of you know any websites that have a wide selection of appliances, while giving much detail regarding measurements?

I'll be searching via the Google on my own and taking note of what I find. None the less, input from this finely experienced community would be much obliged.

And as a side-note... any particular brands I should stay away from?

lastly, thinking about questions the community might ask... I intend to use a 2-way fridge (120v when shored, propane when on the go)

propane furnace / heat-pump? (unless those are also avaliable in 2-way. haven't googled that yet)

propane range/oven

Propane point of use water heater

Thanks a ton,

Taka.

[Robin97396]

Have you considered any of the diesel powered appliances? One fuel source?

[Yuuyia_Takahashi]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

Have you considered any of the diesel powered appliances? One fuel source?

I actually didn’t know there was such a thing. However, I am familiar with propane. As well as I’d like to keep the fuel system for the drivetrain isolated. The only thing I’d even feel 50/50 about would be a diesel back-up generator...

[Robin97396]

If you're not careful you can end up carrying three fuel sources around with you.

You keep asking for information but you obviously already have a plan.

[ben2go]

They are a bit pricey but you can get cooking, water heating, and space heating with one of these. With a well-sealed bus, it should work well.

http://dickinsonmarine.com/product_cat/diesel-stoves/

[john61ct]

Anything you can power off diesel to reduce the amount of propane you have to carry will be more efficient, especially HWS and space heating.

Propane tanks' weight vs energy stored is huge. Very easy to add diesel fuel capacity.

Just 2¢

[o1marc]

So you have to ask yourself, is it cost efficient to spend $2K over $100 to help having only one fuel source? Quite a big step in cost between the two keeps diesel from being a first choice.

[PNW_Steve]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Propane tanks' weight vs energy stored is huge. Very easy to add diesel fuel capacity.

Just 2¢

The empty propane tank is definitely heavier than a similar capacity diesel tank.

Surprisingly, propane has slightly more energy (Btu's) per pound than diesel. 21,548 vs 19,857.

Regarding diesel heaters and hot water, Google Webasto and Espar. You will find a ton of info regarding diesel heaters.

I just picked up a 45,000btu Webasto Schoolastic heater on eBay.

[ben2go]

I've been witness to a propane explosion on an RV. The owner had an electrically operated shut off valves on his tanks. Those tanks were buried in a locker just ahead of the engine. It was a custom built rear engine pusher class A with all the bells and whistles. Well over a million dollars with four slide outs. I was turning right down onto I-26 when I saw an explosion out of the back of the RV. It was headed in my direction on the oposite side of the interstate. It blew the engine and transmission off the mounts and locked the back wheels. It slid around sideways and almost rolled over. In the 10 minutes it took for the FD to get there, there was nothing left. I should note that this RV had those big cylinders similar to home use mounted in the locker. I talk to the fire chief and owner. They couldn't find the cause. They found the propane tanks. Fire chief said the valve blew off one and the other one blew the side out. They were under the bus and not in their mounts. Ever since seeing that, I don't use propane, not even in a grill.

[john61ct]

Yes it is more difficult to use propane perfectly safely.

But it is not hard to reduce the risks far far below that of driving on down the road.

Ideally use a professional, if not for doing the work itself, then reviewing your plans and doing a commissioning inspection.

Get them to show you how to (very) regularly inspect for leaks, and replace any rubber hoses.

The more infrastructure can be located outside the living space air envelope the better.

[PNW_Steve]

No doubt any fuel we carry has some hazard.

If not installed and operated properly, propane has the potential to be very dangerous.

Given that there are an estimated 8.9 million RV'S in the US (per RVIA) and propane incidents are quite rare, I feel comfortable with propane as long as proper care is taken with the installation and operation.

[Yuuyia_Takahashi]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

If you're not careful you can end up carrying three fuel sources around with you.

You keep asking for information but you obviously already have a plan.

This is true. Had not had the simple epiphany of "three fuels to have to keep track of"... Good call. And Yes, I do keep asking for information while already having a plan. My plan is created off of a very small knowledge base, therefore asking questions helps me reevaluate the plan as well as providing an outside prospective from more experienced individuals

Originally Posted by ben2go

They are a bit pricey but you can get cooking, water heating, and space heating with one of these. With a well-sealed bus, it should work well.

http://dickinsonmarine.com/product_cat/diesel-stoves/

Thanks for the link! I'll certainly check it out.

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes it is more difficult to use propane perfectly safely.

But it is not hard to reduce the risks far far below that of driving on down the road.

Ideally use a professional, if not for doing the work itself, then reviewing your plans and doing a commissioning inspection.

Get them to show you how to (very) regularly inspect for leaks, and replace any rubber hoses.

The more infrastructure can be located outside the living space air envelope the better.

Yeah, If I finalize on propane it will certainly be done by a professional. I'm comfortable inspecting and operating the system but for the initial install and functionality testing, I want someone who knows what they are doing (as well as has company insurance )

Plus (even though this is more of a conversion discussion statement) Once the bus is roughed in and all appliances and equipment are in their respective locations I'll try to find somewhere to have it inspected with a fine tooth come and actually receive a "Roadworthiness" certificate ( if there is such a thing)

[Robin97396]

Why don't you take it to the local diesel shop and have them do an evaluation? I don't think they're going to give you any certificates though. No guarantees either. They will usually warranty their own work though if it's a reputable shop.

I like that you know what you want to do even though that's quite unusual here. I do think you're missing some information on alternatives to your plans. Maybe you already know what the alternate choices are. You have definitely done some research just to know what you want though.

Many of us use propane as a backup system, if not for primary heating and cooking. The diesel appliances are quite expensive as marine products, but the theory is it's pretty easy to add a fuel tank to the bus. It is close to the same BTUs, and you're already going to be buying diesel anyway. Honestly, diesel appliances are financially prohibitive for most of us. The people that have them say they are fantastic.

[Yuuyia_Takahashi]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

Why don't you take it to the local diesel shop and have them do an evaluation? I don't think they're going to give you any certificates though. No guarantees either. They will usually warranty their own work though if it's a reputable shop.

I like that you know what you want to do even though that's quite unusual here. I do think you're missing some information on alternatives to your plans. Maybe you already know what the alternate choices are. You have definitely done some research just to know what you want though.

Many of us use propane as a backup system, if not for primary heating and cooking. The diesel appliances are quite expensive as marine products, but the theory is it's pretty easy to add a fuel tank to the bus. It is close to the same BTUs, and you're already going to be buying diesel anyway. Honestly, diesel appliances are financially prohibitive for most of us. The people that have them say they are fantastic.

Taking it to a reputable shop for an eval is what I intend to do. and I suppose that by "certificate of roadworthiness" I just mean that once whatever bus I purchase has been inspected keep my receipt from them with a simple notation on it saying that "in our professional opinion this vehicle is acceptable for road use". Being an automotive tech myself, I've done plenty of PPI's for customers and all we normally do is make a note on the invoice saying what, if anything we found that should be addressed for it to be in optimal condition as to not cause a safety hazard to the buyer or others on the road.

The only reason I have any idea of what I want is because I've had this idea floating around in my head for a few years so there was plenty of time to compare and contrast things. Having full-timed for two years in the fifth-wheel I had, I learned what I did/didn't like about certain things. The missing information as to alternatives is the main reasons I joined the forum. It's been about 2.5-3 years since I got rid of the fifth-wheel so I had no clue as to what might be on the market these days. Any and all input is appreciated, believe me.

I'm currently researching the diesel appliances stuff because it also seems like a viable option, (and yes they are astronomically expensive compared to propane) The things that I'm in the process of reading up on are the emissions factor, fuel consumption rate, longevity/maintenance etc. once I've felt that I've read enough literature on the topic I'll decide what I actually want to settle on. Like said above, I'm very appreciative of all the feedback and thoughts that you're all providing because it's an outside look that I don't get for myself, and has the potential to simplify or improve upon the ideas that I already have.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

Quick note.
I have heard of people trying to use the propane fridge while going down the road and the flame would get blown out through the air back pressure in the burner vent.
To me trying to run propane fridge,heater or something like that while going down the road needs more thought and maybe some airflow protection if you do choose that option.

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

Quick note.
I have heard of people trying to use the propane fridge while going down the road and the flame would get blown out through the air back pressure in the burner vent.
To me trying to run propane fridge,heater or something like that while going down the road needs more thought and maybe some airflow protection if you do choose that option.

The European RV fridges were mostly 3-way, for that reason.

They ran on 12V, 240V and Propane/Butane.

12V was for traveling.

[Yuuyia_Takahashi]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

Quick note.
I have heard of people trying to use the propane fridge while going down the road and the flame would get blown out through the air back pressure in the burner vent.
To me trying to run propane fridge,heater or something like that while going down the road needs more thought and maybe some airflow protection if you do choose that option.

Yeah, that's one thing that I experienced as a newbie with my fifth wheel.
It was pretty chilly outside and I was making a quick trip up to the water-tank dump. figured "Ehh it's only about 3 miles away, ill leave the heater running" even in the short drive there at 45mph the flame blew out and when I parked I heard my leak alarm going off, spent a couple minutes finding the culprit, and learned that when in motion shut down all gas and close your valves.

good looking out though.

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by Yuuyia_Takahashi

Yeah, that's one thing that I experienced as a newbie with my fifth wheel.
It was pretty chilly outside and I was making a quick trip up to the water-tank dump. figured "Ehh it's only about 3 miles away, ill leave the heater running" even in the short drive there at 45mph the flame blew out and when I parked I heard my leak alarm going off, spent a couple minutes finding the culprit, and learned that when in motion shut down all gas and close your valves.

good looking out though.

The flame-failure device should have prevented a leak!

[Yuuyia_Takahashi]

Originally Posted by Twigg

The flame-failure device should have prevented a leak!

Given that it was a $300 trailer from 1982 I just handled problems as they arose. it was a "fixing while occupied" type of thing.

I don't remember what the exact part was called, but by the time that I had gotten the furnace working at 100%, I had replace a portion of line, changed a few valves and a thermostat...

[Robin97396]

I also found some information today that is likely also relevant to you. A number of people have mentioned buying a webasto coolant heater lately, and that has been an intent of mine too. I've always had questions about fuel consumption of the scholastic and finally found the answer. In a 24 hour period they reportedly easily consume 5 gallons of diesel under cold conditions. That would be kind of a deal breaker over the long term for me. Even during freezing weather I get about 2.5 days from a 20 lb propane tank. It appears that is about half the cost of using diesel after buying a webasto.

This is some weird weather lately. It was a quite comfortable 65 degrees today when it should be in the low 30s or snowing.