Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-04-2015, 04:24 PM   #1
Bus Nut
 
charles_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 489
Year: 1982
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International S1800
Engine: DT466 Trans: MT643
Rated Cap: 65
Staying Warm with a Webasto?

The cold weather is setting in here in CO and I got to thinking about my heating needs. A wood stove is still in the plan, but I got to thinking about something for when I need heat faster or dont want to build a fire if im only going to be in the bus for a couple hours.

We have about 6 webasto thermo top c's ive been taking off buses that we sell, scrap, etc. and I got the idea to put one on my bus and plumb it in on a closed loop to heat coolant and run it through a pair of the underseat heaters i took out of this and another bus.
I would also pump the coolant through a flat plate heat exchanger to use for heating the tap water in my hot water tank if i needed/wanted hot water.

The unit puts out something like 17,000 btu and by circulating the coolant through the pair of heaters and running the fans, I hope to be able to keep the bus warm in almost any weather in this method so that I dont have to rely exclusively on building fires to stay warm. Also, the webasto can be controlled by a timer and I have an extra, 60 gallon diesel tank I can install under my bus just to supply the heater.

I am wondering if anyone has done something like this. It seems very promising and since I have them in abundance for free, it seems like an attractive option. I am wondering if I should add a tank in my coolant loop to store the heated coolant, but I think it would have to be quite large if I wanted to be able to cycle the webasto instead of running it whenver i needed heat.

Any thoughts or ideas? Anyone tried staying warm using a webasto?

charles_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 05:19 PM   #2
Bus Crazy
 
M1031A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Dowdy Lakes, Colorado
Posts: 1,444
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner ER
Engine: 3208 CAT/MT643 tranny
Rated Cap: 87
If you have any spares I'm all in for getting one!!!!!
__________________
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence. — George Washington
M1031A1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 05:29 PM   #3
Bus Crazy
 
opus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,626
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All-American R/E
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
We use a Webasto all the time. Not the unit you are talking about, the DBW2010 is what I have. 45,000 BTU.

I left all my heaters in the bus, added a couple thermostats and a power supply to power it. All is right....
opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 05:34 PM   #4
Bus Nut
 
charles_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 489
Year: 1982
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International S1800
Engine: DT466 Trans: MT643
Rated Cap: 65
The units I have are all Thermo Top C's and have only 17k btus

Opus--Do you still circulate the coolant through the engine or have you looped it off? Is it your primary heat source? Any guess on fuel consumption in real life? Im really getting into this idea.
__________________
Patina enthusiast and professional busman
www.bustoshow.org
Blog: www.lookatthatbus.com
Instragram: @lookatthatbus
charles_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 05:37 PM   #5
Bus Crazy
 
opus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,626
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All-American R/E
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
I circulate it through the engine. The engine is a huge heat sink, I dont know why people loop it off, that just makes the Webasto run more.

Primary heat source, yes. 0.35gph. Been overnight in -16 and survived nice and toasty.
opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 05:45 PM   #6
Bus Nut
 
charles_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 489
Year: 1982
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International S1800
Engine: DT466 Trans: MT643
Rated Cap: 65
I figured I'd rather loop it off and not try to heat a ton of steel that's not in my living space. I was toying with the idea of a tank of some kind to buffer the cycling of the webasto. my only worry at this point is the cost of heating using this unit. granted, i can use the off-road diesel for this tank, which is nice.
__________________
Patina enthusiast and professional busman
www.bustoshow.org
Blog: www.lookatthatbus.com
Instragram: @lookatthatbus
charles_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 05:48 PM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
opus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,626
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All-American R/E
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
My fuel comes out of my main tank. You already have a tank, the engine. Its thick, heavy and will hold hot water for a long time.
opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 05:52 PM   #8
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,635
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
In about January 2014 I did an experiment in my bus. I laid two electric baseboard heaters on the floor (4.5 kW total), wired them up to 240 through an electric meter, and let it run for the night with a few temperature loggers. The low that night was 16 F outdoors and the bus dropped to 58 F. That was measured in the center of the bus; the two ends probably were cooler because there was no forced circulation of the heat. This was bone stock; no windows deleted nor insulation added, though I note mine does have a layer of globbed-on foam insulation hanging like stalactites below the floor.. anyway, if you have added insulation and it doesn't get too much colder than this where you are, just the one 17 kBTU (about 5 kW) may get you through fine.

opus is right, the engine adds a huge amount of thermal mass and limits short-cycling of the coolant heater. But it's a huge radiator too, dissipating your heat to the outdoors.

It's in my plans to do something like what you describe. Since it (mine) will be gated off from the engine, it'll probably need its own coolant reservoir and expansion system. Nat described in The Four Season Prime, I think, an idea to have a stainless steel tank built with a regular radiator cap and expansion tank and other features too. My thoughts are headed in that direction as well.
family wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 05:56 PM   #9
Bus Crazy
 
opus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,626
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All-American R/E
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by family wagon View Post

opus is right, the engine adds a huge amount of thermal mass and limits short-cycling of the coolant heater. But it's a huge radiator too, dissipating your heat to the outdoors.
What I did to help [havent used them yet] was make a couple insulated panels to cover the perforated doors on the back of both sides of my bus. That surely should do something.

We needed the Webasto last weekend but we had shore power so I ran an oil filled radiator instead.
opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 06:00 PM   #10
Bus Nut
 
charles_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 489
Year: 1982
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International S1800
Engine: DT466 Trans: MT643
Rated Cap: 65
Yeah, at this point I'm kicking myself for not taking the time to figure this out and run some lines in the floor for heating the bus that way.

When I raised my roof, I removed all the bus windows and use only double-pane insulated rv windows. There's probably 1/3 of my wall area that is window now. The bus is insulated by an average of 2.75" of spray foam, and 3" of rigid foam (poly-iso) in the floor. Im at close to r-20 all around when you factor in the reflectix I put over the spray foam so hopefully, this should keep me toasty in the cold.

I just cant justify using the engine to store thermal energy. One idea I had was to use an old water heater tank and put it sideways under the bus. Not sure how many gallons I should do yet for that, but it seems like it would work. That would be a lot of coolant though...
__________________
Patina enthusiast and professional busman
www.bustoshow.org
Blog: www.lookatthatbus.com
Instragram: @lookatthatbus
charles_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 06:15 PM   #11
Bus Crazy
 
M1031A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Dowdy Lakes, Colorado
Posts: 1,444
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner ER
Engine: 3208 CAT/MT643 tranny
Rated Cap: 87
So I take it y'all don't have any spares? I'm looking for a good used Webasto or comparable heater for Heavy to keep us warm in the winter. I figured if I begged someone would know where to find one (or two)....... I have some money, just not a whole bunch (unless you want to count the ones.......).
__________________
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence. — George Washington
M1031A1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 09:28 PM   #12
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Unless the engine is covered with spray foam, it will not act as a thermal mass storage. It will act as a thermal dump, wasting a ton of heat and more importantly wasting a ton of diesel and money.

If you want to store heat in a thermal mass to prevent short cycling, add a storage tank.

Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 09:52 PM   #13
Bus Nut
 
charles_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 489
Year: 1982
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International S1800
Engine: DT466 Trans: MT643
Rated Cap: 65
Maybe I should just foam in the whole engine then. Imagine that, almost a full ton of thermal mass to use for heating

I'll probably figure out a tank, then. It would be great to keep it inside the bus, but Im out of interior room for something so big. Nat--any guess what a good size would be? I was thinking in the 30 gallon range... bigger would be better but filling a 50gallon system with coolant seems like it would be $$$$

I entertained the idea of taking a steel box, putting a cooper coil through it, then filling with sand or some other heavy, dense material, then putting this box in an insulated, larger box. I would then only have to run the coolant through the copper tube and sand is way more dense for storing energy than water.
__________________
Patina enthusiast and professional busman
www.bustoshow.org
Blog: www.lookatthatbus.com
Instragram: @lookatthatbus
charles_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 10:03 PM   #14
Bus Crazy
 
opus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,626
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All-American R/E
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1031A1 View Post
So I take it y'all don't have any spares? I'm looking for a good used Webasto or comparable heater for Heavy to keep us warm in the winter. I figured if I begged someone would know where to find one (or two)....... I have some money, just not a whole bunch (unless you want to count the ones.......).
I'm working on a couple but sadly you'll need more money then you want to give.
opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 10:10 PM   #15
Bus Crazy
 
opus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,626
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All-American R/E
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster View Post
Unless the engine is covered with spray foam, it will not act as a thermal mass storage. It will act as a thermal dump, wasting a ton of heat and more importantly wasting a ton of diesel and money.
Thats not exactly a true statement. In this case however, a water tank would be far more efficient. If you have the space you want to give up that is.

I use my bus every other weekend for 3 days. If you were living it it, sure enough, foam everything...until you need it to be cool in the summer.

Any heat loss from my engine goes up...right to where our bed is. Its a win win for me.

Sure, its not the most efficient way to go about it but, I dont have to cold start my engine.

The less complex a setup is, the better.

A water heater tank would be the cats meow though if you were living in it.
opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 11:28 PM   #16
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles_m View Post
Maybe I should just foam in the whole engine then. Imagine that, almost a full ton of thermal mass to use for heating

I'll probably figure out a tank, then. It would be great to keep it inside the bus, but Im out of interior room for something so big. Nat--any guess what a good size would be? I was thinking in the 30 gallon range... bigger would be better but filling a 50gallon system with coolant seems like it would be $$$$

I entertained the idea of taking a steel box, putting a cooper coil through it, then filling with sand or some other heavy, dense material, then putting this box in an insulated, larger box. I would then only have to run the coolant through the copper tube and sand is way more dense for storing energy than water.
The beginning information needed to start this calculation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by opus View Post
Thats not exactly a true statement. In this case however, a water tank would be far more efficient. If you have the space you want to give up that is.

I use my bus every other weekend for 3 days. If you were living it it, sure enough, foam everything...until you need it to be cool in the summer.

Any heat loss from my engine goes up...right to where our bed is. Its a win win for me.

Sure, its not the most efficient way to go about it but, I dont have to cold start my engine.

The less complex a setup is, the better.

A water heater tank would be the cats meow though if you were living in it.
Interesting way of thinking.

At the shop we do the foam side vent covers for lowering the amount of diesel used each night when the winter wind is really blowing. It's unreal how much more heat it takes on a windy night.

Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 11:37 PM   #17
Bus Crazy
 
opus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,626
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All-American R/E
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
We were out last year end of November. It was -8 and we couldn't get out of the wind. That was the only time we've been cold, and we were cold!
That's why I made foam vent covers last week.
opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2015, 03:31 AM   #18
Skoolie
 
RHOMBUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 217
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner HDX
Engine: CAT 3126B250
Rated Cap: 84
I was recently looking at Webasto duo-top evo, so if you have something similar available I'd be interested. I don't know how the boiler system would work for "on demand" or if that's even possible. 12L doesn't seem to be a whole lot of hot water.

I also plan on going with as many diesel-operated systems as possible. I plan on adding an additional 50gal diesel tank to support those systems.
__________________
My project: The Cruel Bus
RHOMBUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2015, 06:11 AM   #19
Bus Nut
 
superdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: hills of sw virginia
Posts: 889
Year: 1996
Chassis: thomas
Engine: 8.3 cummins
Rated Cap: 11 window
have you considered a small lp on demand unit like an l5 with a dc circulator pump with either in floor heating or radiator type exchanger.
__________________
living in a bus down by the river.
my build pics
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/membe...albums942.html
superdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 12:41 AM   #20
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2
Heat with the coolant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by opus View Post
We use a Webasto all the time. Not the unit you are talking about, the DBW2010 is what I have. 45,000 BTU.

I left all my heaters in the bus, added a couple thermostats and a power supply to power it. All is right....

Are you heating with coolant, opus? How did you set it up to cycle through the bus?
bridgefamily is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.