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Old 01-03-2019, 12:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firebuild View Post
OK, so here is where I get thoroughly confused. When I discovered my bus had no block heater, I looked into theses diesel coolant heaters, thinking I could kill two birds with one stone - or as PETA would say, feed two birds with one scone - by installing a device that would make cold starting easy and also heat the air inside the bus. But I couldn't find a straight answer on this anywhere. If you google "difference between a coolant heater and a block heater" most of the links you get say they are the same thing. Which I guess on some level they are since they both heat the coolant, but maybe I was asking the wrong question. I ended up paying for a block heater AND for this diesel air heater (block heater arrived today and is being installed tomorrow). It's too late now, but just for my future knowledge, is it correct that I could have gotten away with just one purchase?

Hi firebuild, if you had purchased a Webasto or an equivalent of that you could have made one purchase do. It would be costlier to buy and have installed mind you than the route you have taken which should work fine.
I was wondering if you got a block heater installed yet and how that was working for you . An air heater is good too for those cold mornings or anytime and would definitely be a big plus for defrosting or melting freezing rain off the bus.
You will like what you have purchased regardless I believe.


Happy New Year to you and Buster and mom. Hope it is less stressful than the past year for you.



John

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Old 01-03-2019, 12:37 PM   #22
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I ended up getting a diesel air heater but haven't taken it out of the box yet. Maybe this weekend, weather permitting of course!
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:41 PM   #23
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I was wondering if you got a block heater installed yet and how that was working for you .


Happy New Year to you and Buster and mom. Hope it is less stressful than the past year for you.



John
Will have the block heater in by tomorrow if all goes well!

Thanks, life is better already and I am expecting a great 2019. Happy New Year to you too!
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:44 PM   #24
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If I understand you correctly.....

The answer to your last question...... You need both. The engine block heater is an electric thing, just powerfull enough to keep the engine warmed up. A diesel AIR heater, uses the diesel fuel to burn in a little bitty furnace, that heats air and then has a blower fan to blow that hot air around inside you bus.

A coolant heater, way bigger piece of metal, about 25 to 30 inches long, foot or so tall, and 18 or so inches deep..... has a furnace, a hot water tank, hot water = engine coolant- furnace, hot water tank, water pump, fuel pump, some electronics to control the thing.

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Old 01-03-2019, 12:46 PM   #25
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The answer to your last question...... You need both. The engine block heater is an electric thing, just powerfull enough to keep the engine warmed up. A diesel AIR heater, uses the diesel fuel to burn in a little bitty furnace, that heats air and then has a blower fan to blow that hot air around inside you bus.

A coolant heater, way bigger piece of metal, about 25 to 30 inches long, foot or so tall, and 18 or so inches deep..... has a furnace, a hot water tank, hot water = engine coolant- furnace, hot water tank, water pump, fuel pump, some electronics to control the thing.

william
I know I couldn't get by with either just the block heater or just the air heater - but wouldn't that way bigger piece of metal have been able to do both?
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:33 PM   #26
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Firebuild,

I purchased a Webasto Scholastic coolant heater. It will allow me to heat my choice of heating the interior, the engine or both.

When I am running down the road, I can use the same plumbing and heater running from engine heat.

I will also have a heat exchanger to preheat water before the demand water heater.

A lot of flexibility.
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:36 PM   #27
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How do block heaters work. Are there some that heat other than the oil?
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Old 01-03-2019, 02:03 PM   #28
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i'm learning a lot

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
...

A coolant heater, way bigger piece of metal, about 25 to 30 inches long, foot or so tall, and 18 or so inches deep..... has a furnace, a hot water tank, hot water = engine coolant- furnace, hot water tank, water pump, fuel pump, some electronics to control the thing.

william
That sounds kinda big for a little bus. I don't have a real bus, it the bastard child of a bus, mother was a bus but father was a van. I assume the 30 inch unit should go inside, plus there is the extra hoses and fitting needed. My under hood and dog house is crammed as it is.

I have an external AC unit hanging about mid-ship so even under the bus is full.
It looks like the hot air only unit is in my future.

These kinda of threads really help me as a newbie who has to visualize this stuff from the description.
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Old 01-03-2019, 02:57 PM   #29
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How do block heaters work. Are there some that heat other than the oil?

Block heaters are typically 120vac. Meant to heat the coolant only. Mount in frost plug hole low on the block. About 1000 watts on average, 2 hours plugged in seems to be lots at most temps.



There are coolant heaters that are mounted inline in lower rad hose, come with circulating pump built in. Not sure how that works when thermostat is closed, maybe pump runs full time.

That would be my last choice of coolant heating for sure.


I have seen dipstick oil heaters but hard to find anymore.

Oil heating blankets are 120vac also and somehow stick to the oil pan.
Or just park over top of a bunch of red hot embers all night when 40 below.


John
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:40 PM   #30
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blackjohn has it right, the block heater you got will go in a freezeplug hole. it will heat the coolant around the engine to make it start easier.. but needs to be plugged into a 110 volt outlet... the one on my DTA360 is 1500 watts.. you would never get away for very long if you try and use this to heat from a solar battery bank.. but if you are boondocking you can use it if you have a generator capable of handling the wattage that heater puts out. the block heater is not fired by diesel fuel.



the webasto coolant heaters we talk of are similar in the way they operate to your air heater, except you install them in the heater hoses which circulate through the engine and inside the bus.. since the engine thermostat stays closed.. (most webasto style coolant heaters turn off at 165-170 degrees) you dont the radiator, but you keep the engine warm for starting easy.. and it circuates hot coolant through the existing bus heaters..you would then turn on the fans for the heater you wish to use to heat the inside of the bus..



you air heater is a more direct way of heating the air inside your bus.. it will be just like a miniture furnace like you have in a house.. it will burn diesel into a heat exchanger and blows a fan over it to the registers wherever you duct them to. your engine will not be heated with this device.



if you are going to be near shore power in extreme cold temperatures the way you are doing it is likely the best way, having your engine heated separately of your bus.



there are oil pan heaters we used to use back in the day as kids in our diesels.. at least I used one in my peugeot diesel.. i was a kid that didnt have the $$ for a proper block heater so I had a 100 watt oil dipstick heater which heated the oil in the pan.



heating the oil didnt necessarily warm up the cylinders much, although it helped.. however it allowed the engine starter to use Much less energy when starting as the oil was actually fluid and thinner.. as opposed to thick Goo.. many m,ornings it was the difference of whether my car would start on its own or have to charge its batteries to start.



that said, the T-444E in my red bus has started on its own with no engine heaters (its a texas bus) down to minus 10F degrees.. all 8 of its glowplugs are working correctly.


my DTA360 which isnt equipped with glowplugs started but BARELY and with LOTS of cranking at 0f without being plugged in.. so I wouldnt rely on it any colder than 10f or so... when its block heater is plugged in, that bus starts up like its a summer day.. hop in and click the key a couple seconds.. no smoke or fanfare, just starts and runs.. and the heaters warm up fairly quickly..



-Christopher
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Old 01-03-2019, 05:31 PM   #31
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blackjohn has it right, the block heater you got will go in a freezeplug hole. it will heat the coolant around the engine to make it start easier.. but needs to be plugged into a 110 volt outlet... the one on my DTA360 is 1500 watts.. you would never get away for very long if you try and use this to heat from a solar battery bank.. but if you are boondocking you can use it if you have a generator capable of handling the wattage that heater puts out. the block heater is not fired by diesel fuel


-Christopher
Well..... It turns out this is what I ended up with:

https://www.amazon.com/Kats-1155-Wat...26549454&psc=1

The reason I didn't know what it was was that my mechanic ordered it for me. It's a 200W magnetic oil pan heater. He said it was way easier to install and cheaper than the freeze plug block heater would have been, and a big advantage is I can move it to another vehicle should I ever need to. It's not what I thought was happening but I am all for cheaper, and as long as it works... It is definitely within the capacity of my generator, too, so that's great to know should that need ever come up.

We shall see how it works! So far, the bus started fine after sitting for 3 days in the parking lot without being started, AND without the heater being plugged in. This is a result of finally getting new sending units in both tanks, I'm guessing, so with the heater plugged in I'm expecting things to be AWESOME.

2019 is looking good for Me and Buster.

Do me a favor: Maybe don't tell me if you think this oil pan heater sucks. I want to live in my rainbows and unicorns fantasy for a little while, given life has been hell for so long up till now.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:44 PM   #32
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I’m guessing you will be just fine, I used a dipstick heater to start my diesel in wicked cold temps. Like I mentioned it was often the difference between whether my car would start or not..
Christopher
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:44 PM   #33
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If it works for you, then

all is good. I think the big thing is being at peace with how this is working for you,

william
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:04 AM   #34
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We have a 20k btu propane furnace plus a 14k btu Planar diesel air heater in our bus. Like them both...Why 2? My Mary is post cancer and really doesn't like being cold, being the toughest person I know gets her special treatment from me and a redundant heat source.
*Planar pros:
Easy to fuel. Run out? Just dump some in. My tank holds 5g.
Low fuel use=1g per 24 hrs. +-.
Nice dry heat with low noise level.
*Planar cons:
Yearly maintenance.
A bit more finicky than the LPG one.
*LPG pros:
Programable thermostat.
A bit more btus.
Nice dry heat.
Low fuel use= 1 20lb tank lasts 7 days +-.
*LPG cons:
Blower's a bit noisy.
Need to take tank to refill.

The low operating cost goes to the 20k BTU Suburban furnace. here propane is $1.70 and diesel is $3 per gallon.

Plus you have fuel flexibility options that keep you warm should you end up somewhere that my not have propane....
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Old 04-04-2019, 07:56 PM   #35
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Since this is the diesel heater thread I figured I'd drop this here, too. Gave it its own thread as well.
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:15 PM   #36
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Plus you have fuel flexibility options that keep you warm should you end up somewhere that my not have propane....
The opposite is what happened in OCT near Bishop Ca. (In the 20's) The diesel heater decided it needed service (cleaning the combustion chamber) and got real stinky and smoky so we had only our 2 Mr. Heaters and those are not my choice for safe heat especially while sleeping so that's why I installed the Suburban.
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:34 PM   #37
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This has me second guessing my wood burning stove, I'm rapidly running out of room inside. This a viable affordable alternative, even if I need 2 of them.
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:41 PM   #38
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My 5kw unit hides behind my sofa and is more than capable of heating my bus.

Right now I run it from my fuel tank using a very fancy custom filler cap. On a freezing night we used around a gallon of fuel keeping it around 78 degrees inside. I had to tweak the minimum setting, it puts out quite a bit of heat at it's idle level.

Review video coming soon.Click image for larger version

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Old 04-04-2019, 10:08 PM   #39
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My 5kw unit hides behind my sofa and is more than capable of heating my bus.

Right now I run it from my fuel tank using a very fancy custom filler cap. On a freezing night we used around a gallon of fuel keeping it around 78 degrees inside. I had to tweak the minimum setting, it puts out quite a bit of heat at it's idle level.

Review video coming soon.Attachment 31458Attachment 31459
That fuel line in the cap just go to the bottom of the tank? Where is the fuel pump located?
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:12 PM   #40
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Yep the fuel line doesn't quite reach the bottom of the tank but gets 80% of the way. You don't want the heater to drain you to empty of course.

The fuel pump is right there, attached to the frame around the tank.
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